Forcing us to the entire story quest to unlock the new classes is just bad business

[Goufunaki]

Instead of seasons, couldn't Yoshida have just done ARR as CSI and HW as CSI Miami? Let people play both at their own pace.

[Hypie]

Not sure if this was already posted but ZAM had an interview with Yoshida.
Story was the given reason for the gating.



Video source
Text transcription of the interview

You know i really start to like Yoshi. He has a clear Line and knows what he wants to do. And he gives a damn about all the crying but reacts to really constructive feedback. man i wish i could give him something to say "thanks man...your the dev!"

[Eidolon]

Wow, you guys are definitely misquoting how FFXI handled it's content. Matter of fact, if you think FFXI supports an arguement of FFXIV's gated content, think again:

In FFXI, yes, there was story content and high level zones gated behind the story content. However, once you hit the level where those zones because useful, you could unlock any of them by completing the level-relevant prerequisites (30) + Having the game installed.


For Ninja:

• Kazham : You could unlock that place - and indeed, were even EXPECTED to unlock that place, at level 25... 5 levels before you unlock the job. This is how our EXP parties work.

• Bastok/World Fame : This was one of the easier parts. Each nation had an easily repeated quest that you could "Grind" for fame. It was easy to grind out the required "Rep" for it, and as your rep got higher, you would find it easier to grind more as more quests became unlocked. Let's not forget- certain spells were also locked behind fame unless you had the gil to buy them outright.

• The Quest Itself : It was a challenging quest for a level 30. You needed higher levels, or a decently balanced party to take on the monster spawn in the tunnels.

For Sky, which as you guys mentioned - was Shadow Lord content...

• The "Ranks" were grindable by turning in crystals, and then completing quests. The quests required higher levels as time went on, and they never gated you from getting the other jobs.

• It was dominantly the story, with a high level zone locked behind it. Thus, a level 30 interested in unlocking Ninja might not be interested in going there. I do agree, getting to sky was a great feeling. The first time you step out of that teleportal, it was a whole new world to see. This was a GREAT reward for working HARD to complete the content!

This was an example of GOOD Gated content. It was all gated, but it was all gated behind content you could do at the relevant level, just like how it would be fine to gate Mechanist, Dark Knight, and Astrologian - but it should be gated behind level 30 content.

What people in this topic wish for, and even if it won't come to fruition, is not necessarily that Heavensward areas being unlocked to them. What people would like to see, is that Square Enix should've reasonably planned for the new jobs - instead of locking them inside the new area, they should've been unlocked outside heavensward.

This was the writing choice on Square Enix's part for their stories. You can argue all day that "There are lore reasons", however just by doing Astrologian, I can tell this job could easily have been like the other jobs... Unlocked outside Ishgard, then taken inward. You're literally part of a no-name school, and you were 'prophesized' by the stars to be the one to help him spread the name to other Ishgardians? It's literally ONE person.... and your first quest, to actually LEARN the skills, takes place inside the Black Shroud.

Now, pressing forward, and onwards,

I just want to say that I'm dissapointed in the other players. To me, all I see is a bunch of 50's that don't want their special snowflake Dark Knight / Mechanist / Astrologian being touched by the "Filthy casuals" as another player put it (lol... the fact that you call someone casual for not being level 50 and compelting some of the easiest content in the game.

You know what? Bahamut Trance should've been locked behind T13. You should've b een required to beat Bahamut to be able to use Painflares. They could've made that a Lore REason. Would you still argue that the "Lore" should hold up in that case? No. SE Wrote it so you don't have to beat Bahamut to Bahamut Trance. I'm interested to see what BS-excuse the story gives for this.

[Higashikata]

OH NO!

Required story in a historically story oriented franchise! What on earth was SE thinking?!?!?!

[Vicus]

So just an update.

First,

For everyone who has contributed to this thread thank you, for those who just personally attacked everyone that you didn't agree with well...I'm probably going to give you more fuel to rage.
Second,
I am currently halfway through the "Dreams of Ice" story line working my way to HW. When I made my original post I never stated I was a casual player. I never stated I didn't love and want FF lore into the game. I also never stated I quit the game because I did not like it or because the game was to hard. I stated the opposite MULTIPLE times but the people who flamed just skipped ahead to rage and hit submit. I am a hardcore raider, always have and always will be. I have played FF in era on systems dating back to the NES days. I will and am going to play this game with the intent of being in a top end guild pushing content once I catch up.

With that said, I still think this game has a bad business model and has some serious issues that people have addressed but many (if not TO many) people are blindly praising as good things just becuase Yoshi is the director and because "It's FF and thats the way it should be".

The story (MSQ) has epic moments that are vital to the game and should not be missed, but this is only 15% of the MSQ. The majority of it is just insane fetching. So much so that if this was any other MMO people would have burned down the servers by now. I've enjoyed it, I will say that doing the "hard mode" Primals with the introduction of wipes = increased damage buff up to 40% changes my mind a bit. I believe with this type of system that its not something that should be avioded while doing the story, it should be left in. But once again the amount of fetching in the MSQ has to be fixed. Each main story block is 10 minutes of oooo and WOOOOW followed by 2-4 hours of running around doing stuff like ...going to get a mining axe because it failed to be delivered ontime.

The way you earn experience from 1-50 is way different from how you earn experience from 51-60. Not only do you make people push out hours of content that givers barely any experience just to get to HW, once they are there you make the fates, questing, and story quest STILL not enough to level all the way through a level. You have to do dungeons and dailies to fill the gaps of experience. YOU KNOW something is wrong when everyone is going back to dragon head and doing old fates because they give more base experience then the current fates. They are always faster and more populated to kill.

Third,
They changed a large chunk of the classes and how they play from 1-50 compared to 52-60. Stressing lore and story as being one of the reasons why new classes aren't allowed but forcing someone to play a class that once at 52 changes drastically from how it was in AAR makes no sense.

This has affected me the most because being a bard its like playing a different game now. Adding cast times to all abilities is just a bad idea. To top this off, Mach is the sameway. I can tell you right now that playing Machinist to 52 one way then adding cast times to everything doesnt HELP the player as much as hurt them because everything they learned is going to build bad habits. Playing a bard one way and now the new day is just ...demotivating. If I played it with WM from say level 30 it would be a lot less shocking if that makes sense. Also making the lowest DPS class also take a penalty while playing songs to make them less dps...makes no sense.

Dragoon is drastically changed over the last three levels on how they use their rotation and play.

Summoners go from having to stack dots with cast times to having the majority of their spells become instant.

Blackmage changes a good amount in how they push out dps.

Having more options is great but how you play your character from 1-50 and how its played at 52-60 is like having a totally different class forced on you. You learn the game mechanics, dungeons, primal system, etc but after all that work you might find out you no longer like what you are playing.

Fourth,
Housing. Started to look into this because its an aspect of every MMO I love and because my wife (who plays ..is also not a casual player) finished the storyline ahead of me (has more time to play) and wanted to branch out now and complete all the quest and work on tradeskills. But once she went into the housing area she realized that getting a house is going to be next to impossible until they increase how many houses are available. This is pretty unacceptable this day and age of MMO's. Server limitations is not a valid excuse. Before you release content make sure it's allow to be obtained by everyone who PAYS for it. If this was gated, I would understand. Make someone do a quest to unlock it. Make it available to those only level 50 or whatever, but making it so that only a VERY small % of players can own one? Just poor implementation. To top it off they are making Airships something you need a house for...lol. That's going to go over well.

The above things I've listed are all aspects of the game that are going to hinder new players from wanting to play and stick around. If your only answer is "Thats fine ..we didn't want them to play anyways and go find a new game", then you my friend are someone who actually wants this game to fail because NO MMO is going to have longevity with a healthy population like that. Will the game shut down the servers? probably not. Will you be able to find groups whenever and however you want without having a core group of players already set in place, not likely.

Ill state this here but I'm sure it will get ignored. I once again love the game, love FF, and am very happy I am playing because I love the dungeon/primal style, the story, the atmosphere of the world, crafting, and how the game makes you feel like you are the warrior of light. But I am unbiased enough to realize that there are some really major flaws that are like a punch to the gut when you experience them for the first time.

Before it's said.. Im not leaving and I dont hate the game. Also this game is for me no matter how many times you say it's not.

[Psychosamm]

I agree with gating Ishgard and it's related areas with completing the MSQ.
However, I do not agree with gating the new classes with the same requirement. As been said, it's bad business. They could have put them in other places aside from ishgard, they did not NEED to have them there. It would have been much more of a sub magnet if the requirement to unlock those classes were simply "Be able to reach the area." Not that it particularly effects me since I've been playing since launch, however I have had friends who came back, became daunted at the sheer volume of quests they needed to complete in order to just GET to ishgard, and said "fuck it" then quit again. It was really unfortunate.

[Vicus]

I agree with gating Ishgard and it's related areas with completing the MSQ.
However, I do not agree with gating the new classes with the same requirement. As been said, it's bad business. They could have put them in other places aside from ishgard, they did not NEED to have them there. It would have been much more of a sub magnet if the requirement to unlock those classes were simply "Be able to reach the area." Not that it particularly effects me since I've been playing since launch, however I have had friends who came back, became daunted at the sheer volume of quests they needed to complete in order to just GET to ishgard, and said "fuck it" then quit again. It was really unfortunate.

Sorry your friend didn't stick around. This is what I worry about. People jump on them right away and say "BYE ..game wasn't meant for you anyways" when in truth people play games to have fun. Allowing someone the opportunity to play something new, stay motivated while doing it could be the difference that keeps players like your friend around for the long haul. The game ALWAYS seems less daunting when you are having fun playing it. When you doing something you dont want to do...you start looking for ways out and excuses. It's a sad fact of life. Some people are happy having stressful jobs that pay a ton because they love the responsibility but I've seen people who love going to work and never being the guy/gal "in charge" and wouldnt have it any other way. They both leave work with a smile on their face.

[Rannie]

Vicus please do me a huge favor stop referring to the new JOBS as classes the are not classes. They require a soul crystal to even be used which auto equips when you equip the weapon. Unlike a class that you can equip the weapon and not have a soul stone on. I'll bend that they could have put the stuff outside maybe but at this point in time all the of the new job "guilds are located in ishgard. Maybe they could have put a starting npc out side but I don't know have it take you to inside the city once you accept the quest. *shrugs* I don't know I didn't design the game. The good news is that in later expansions they will streamline the MSQ but as of right now per his interview on zam he wants people to experience the story. Secondly why do you keep saying is bad business seeing as there are 4 million + active subs as it is even before the expansion came out? It may not be wow numbers but with 4 mill he's got to be doing something right.

[Vicus]

Vicus please do me a huge favor stop referring to the new JOBS as classes the are not classes. They require a soul crystal to even be used which auto equips when you equip the weapon. Unlike a class that you can equip the weapon and not have a soul stone on. I'll bend that they could have put the stuff outside maybe but at this point in time all the of the new job "guilds are located in ishgard. Maybe they could have put a starting npc out side but I don't know have it take you to inside the city once you accept the quest. The good news is that in later expansions they will streamline the MSQ but as of right now per his interview on zam he wants people to experience the story. Secondly why do you keep saying is bad business seeing as there are 4 million + active subs as it is even before the expansion came out? It may not be wow numbers but with 4 mill he's got to be doing something right.

My apologies, saying class is just habit. Good news is I think everyone knew what I meant.

As to the 4 mil subs, I am very happy the game is doing well (I don't know the numbers so I am going to assume they are correct) but just because it has a high sub rate doesn't make certain practices "good business". You stated "it may not be wow numbers" but why can't it be? Getting WoW numbers doesn't mean the game is going to turn into wow. If you are a business, which Square Enix is why not actually shoot for higher numbers while making "Good Business" changes. The changes we all have suggested doesn't make the game any easier or take away from the story, they just make it more accessible to people. You can read multiple people on this thread state they had friends give up due to the shear amount of "catch up" they felt they had to do. So that 4 million could easily be 5, or 6 or more if some of those stuck around. At the very least all the players that did do their research and read that HW had a large MSQ grind to catch up and decided to pass on the expansion, if instead some aspects were accessible to them a bit quicker, they might of spent $40+ on the game. Thats a lot of money Square Enix left on the table. Thats a lot of money they can push toward advertisements, new hardware, few more devs, paying the current devs salaries so they don't have to cut staff (which makes content come out faster), etc.

[Rannie]

I never said that i didn't want more people to play the game and that it had to be a wow clone either. I was just acknowledging the fact that the numbers weren't the same. Also if some one could answer this because I honestly don't follow wow... how many active subs were there in the first year to two years of its release?

I won't even deny that there are people who are not liking how it has been delivered either and today me I understand the frustration with those early main quests I know I for one was getting ticked of the first time I read doing the ones for leading up to titan until they ended and got a good laugh out of them for what happened.

I'm going to be honest and say I'm more envious of how you all get to run through it and get that exp after you got level 50 I wish I could have gotten that exp to help me level up to 60 faster as it is I'm blocked at 58 trying to get to 59 so I can finish the story.