A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[Erepio]

Because whether or not my friend is gated behind content is 100% IRRELEVANT TO YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE GAME!

omg if its not gate for your friend its not gate for ANYONE ie me included so yes it completely relevant to my enjoyment of the game since it wont be gated for me either

[RichardButte]

omg if its not gate for your friend its not gate for ANYONE ie me included

And like I said in the post before last, how does content not being gated affect YOU when you can still choose to do all of the content that you would've had to do, IF it HAD been gated?

[Orspeth]

And like I said in the post before last, how does content not being gated affect YOU when you can still choose to do all of the content that you would've had to do, IF it HAD been gated?

He wants everyone to be forced to play it a certain way - that, or he would not have the self control to proceed through all the story he says he loves so much if it weren't gated... This ll reminds me of the recent flying should not be in game/yes it should debate in WoW..some people just don't want others to have options.

[Erepio]

And like I said in the post before last, how does content not being gated affect YOU when you can still choose to do all of the content that you would've had to do, IF it HAD been gated?

what dont u get I PLAY THIS GAME BECAUSE STORY GATES STUFF...ie i enjoy having to to do everything to get access to x instance if it give me access without doing everything it defaets the damm purpose of gating it in the 1st place


by the logic u going lvl is another type of gate might as well give as a lvl60 boost so, my firend can all be at lvl60 with and so we dont have to do lvling and just do raids

snip

what i want is ppl stop trying to chance the core of game i enjoy and has been this way for almost 2 years now....for me this discussion reminds me of Swtor when ppl where screaming give as more story related stuff and as soon as the announce a stroy related xpack ppl want more raids centrer xpack


ps: also "force ppl to play a certain way" lol..you mean the way the game has been played for the last 2 years and from what it seems it will be played for more to come?

[Orspeth]

snip

Once more,what would stop you from going through all the story if you wanted to, gated or not? Absolutely nothing. And FYI I have zero interest in raids - I enjoy crafting, gathering and exploration - gating is a hindrance to this. I am proceeding thru the MSQ since I am forced to, and because I enjoy many aspects of the game. I even like the story - just not it being gated behind stupid group things.

I personally do not feel like a noble hero from doing a run with random strangers, especially ones with names like Tissue Paper (made up) or other similar non-names. Would much prefer a solo option for all the MSQ required things, or the ability to duo it with my friend.

[Luvbunny]

SNIP...

Richard, you don't seem to get it. For players who HATE MSQ, it does not matter, you can argue 3.0 is better (it's more of the same thing, bigger, longer, uncut, etc...) but for those players, being forced to do ANY MSQ to access contents is no bueno. And 3.0 is worse than 2.0, in the original, I can skip ALL MSQ and go around the entire world (except MSQ dungeons, raids, etc...). This means, if you just want to gather and craft, you can do just that, not even touching MSQ one bit. I can take any new players and do sightseeing and get them pretty much every telepoint they need as level 1 character. Not so much in 3.0, you can't explore areas without doing main quest. Gathering on chocobo is a pain in the ass, so you have to do flying, which pretty much means you MUST do MSQ, and do quests.

So if I am bringing new friends who hate MSQ, they are not going to be very happy when they reach 3.0, because it will be more of the same doing things they hate, but now it is being forced to them. You might as well make a thread, OPEN ALL AREAS, GIVE ALL ACCESS, and make ALL MSQ purely optional so everyone can just do dungeons, raid, FATE leveling without dealing with any quests or MSQ. To conclude, THIS IS NOT THAT KIND OF GAME. So if I have a friend who wants purely ACTION multiplayer aspect, ASAP NOW! I would not bring them here. There are other games like this. ESO would be right for them. Destiny is perfect for them. FF14 is not for them, it is STORY driven game, and you have no options of skipping the "single player with online component" aspect of FF14. It is there for training wheels - and every new players have to do it. They also could use the free xp to level 50 with minimum effort, it is for those who love solo play FF lore and story - which is what the FF series is known for.

I cannot bring myself telling someone who hate MSQ type of game to go buy 3.0 because it is better, because it is NOT. These players will have buyer's remorse because the minute they set foot in Ishgard, they have to do MSQ, not optional. The producer already stated for expansion 4 and up, they will consider changing this strict requirement because by then it could be overwhelming, they may make season 1-3 somewhat optional. But for now, we all have to bite the bullet. Think of it this way in a more positive spin, once you are done, you are DONE. SE will set you free to do "grinding as you see fit" and you no longer have to keep redoing MSQ over and over for every class + jobs. Unlike WoW, every new character - going through the same thing again, and again and again - but that is how WoW is designed.

[RichardButte]

what dont u get I PLAY THIS GAME BECAUSE STORY GATES STUFF...ie i enjoy having to to do everything to get access to x instance if it give me access without doing everything it defaets the damm purpose of gating it in the 1st place

Then SE can have a checkbox in the options that says "Gate Content Behind Story Quests" for people who want strange and bizarre things like this.

Problem solved.

Richard, you don't seem to get it.

I get it fine. I've been arguing for removing the necessity of using the story quest to gate content, and no one has posed anything loosely resembling a counter argument.

And the fact that you don't understand that people want to do stuff with their friends instead of grinding story content solo is not worth arguing any more.

I've been playing through the HW MSQ with my fiancee and finding it lots of fun, just as I did with the MSQ from 50. If I had to do this alone, yeah, probably wouldn't enjoy it as much, but 3.0 cut way back on the fetchy parts of the MSQ.

I know you've been saying it's the same (because it suits what you think is an argument), but it's nowhere near as bad as the 350+ quest slog at 50.

And yeah, I can only see making the MSQ non-mandatory as a good thing.

[KisaiTenshi]

That's not the question.

The question is "Who gets harmed by making the story quest optional?" and the answer is "No one".

You're making a mountain out of a molehill and aren't even reading peoples responses before you get offended by them.

Point 1. If someone does not like the storyline, this not the right game for them. I do not see how you forcing your friends to play it just for you makes this okay. There is no other way to intrepret this. If you have 7 friends playing a board game, you all agree on the rules at the start, because you all start at equal footing. So even people who have played the game before have to do all the beginner cruft. That is what you should be doing.

Point 2. All Final Fantasy games are like this, but they are not the worst offender for "overbearingly long cutscenes"... that belongs to Xenosaga. JRPG's are known for two generally annoying traits by western standards - Extremely long cutscenes, and extremely grindy progression (albeit the random pointless battle.) Western RPG's have their own annoyances, while they are generally too easy by JRPG standards, you end up spending a lot of time repeating things because the quests are all bottles.

As for the Gay Marriage analogy... you fail to understand what the Gay Marriage fight is about. Everyone deserves equal treatment and consideration under the law. That is more consistent with not allowing any kind of MSQ skipping. Who does it harm if someone gets married? Nobody else that's already married. But if you don't have the patience to find a spouse that doesn't entitle you to marriage benefits.

[Elladie]

The developers chose to make the content in HW locked behind the MSQ. Presumably they have their reasons. We can speculate and argue about what those reasons might be and whether they're sensible reasons or not, but really that's all it is; us speculating and/or arguing.

Personally I love the story and never really found any of the story quests that annoying. But I'm a lore addict so yeah ... If SE had chosen to make finishing 2.x optional, it wouldn't bother me. As long as people realised that, if they chose NOT to do 2.x story - as the poster who isn't interested in being the Warrior of Light would wish to choose - they won't be able to access most of the areas beyond Ishgard, most of the post-50 dungeons, primals and EX primals, the NPCs where they can spend their new Tomestones, flying and ... well ... most of the game's content. Because it's all gated by the Heavensward story which is gated by ARR's story.

By all means make the story optional. It was in 2.x if you didn't want to unlock stuff and just craft and RP. I have absolutely no idea why you'd choose to play that way, but that's not for me to decide.

[Luvbunny]

I've been playing through the HW MSQ with my fiancee and finding it lots of fun, just as I did with the MSQ from 50. If I had to do this alone, yeah, probably wouldn't enjoy it as much, but 3.0 cut way back on the fetchy parts of the MSQ.

And that is the BIG DIFFERENCE, you LOVE doing it, even if some of the MSQ could use a trim or two (or making them completely optional - which they will do in expansion 4). If your friends HATE doing MSQ - I have a few who all they did is skipping the CS every single one of them - they will be completely annoyed by 3.0, since it is even more restrictive than 2.0. For others who just want to craft and gathers, this revelation hits them the hardest, they must do MSQ to a point, where all areas are unlocked for them. They do not have to do this at 2.0, they can just gather everywhere and craft to 50 without touching the MSQ. Obviously they would do up to where they can get chocobo, which is tied to MSQ - but at least all areas are unlocked - which is not the case with 3.0.

I could use that analogy of FF14 is Mac/iOS, a completely curated experience, gated everywhere, and you are force to play by its rule. This is pretty much the staple rule of JRPG, and FF story structure in all of their games (with FF13 being the worst offender). While other games, is Android/PC, go explore everywhere, do what you want how you want it - similar how western RPG is structured like Skyrim and GTA series. I do not like western RPG, I want more curated experience, and for players who want open ended world so they can go everywhere and play how they see fit, THIS IS NOT FOR THEM, at least the first half of the game experience follow the strict rule of JRPG. Also another reason why I will not be playing in NA/EU server ever again, I want to play with players who understand their roles and play in a group situation, as well as having the ability to read what your rotation hot bar action means, and can read messages on the screen "telling you this is what you should be doing".