A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[RichardButte]

if im a terrible person then what are you for trying to chance a game that ppl enjoy they way it is to something you enjoy...

I'm a paying customer who would like to play the game with his friends, but there are aspects of the game preventing that from happening so I'm suggesting changes be made.

And once again, these changes do not affect you one BIT, so why are you arguing against them?

If I was suggesting that the story be REMOVED OUTRIGHT, then sure, then I would be arguing for something that affected you, but I'm not.

did u actually compare my enjoying the game the way the devs said they intended for to be played (being ok with ppl fast forwarding story is different than not doing it) with gay marriage..wich for the record i dont care one way or another cuse oh surprise it doesnt effect....chancing the core of a game i like tho does

Yup, and the very first thing I was waiting for was someone to get all "offended" by it because a poor debater will ALWAYS try to play the "I'm offended" card because they can't think of anything else to do when losing an argument.

Explain to me how the logic is different, then:

How is "This ruins the sanctity of FFXIV's storyline!" any different than "This ruins the sanctity of marriage!"?

Would you prefer I made religious inferences instead? Like saying that Ishgard represents heaven (and the game is CALLED "Heavensward", after all...) and that people who believe that other players aren't worthy to get in unless they grind through the tedium of the storyline represent oppressive religious zealots?

I can present dozens of different analogies, here, but in every single one, I promise, the people arguing against making the storyline optional are the bad guys because they're arguing against giving other players the freedom to do something because that freedom makes them feel bad personally.

In order for your argument to work, you have to actually have something tangible at stake to LOSE, and sorry but "the satisfaction of knowing that everyone had to be subjected to the story grind whether they wanted to or not" is NOT tangible!

and u also fail to understand the the core of the game is story literally everything is gate behind it..

The same can be said of EVERY MMO with a story out there, successful or otherwise.

Every bit of WoW's raids have story behind them, and it's no better or worse than FFXIV's.

FFXIV doesn't get special treatment because it's a FF game. 1.0 had a storyline, too (which was, again, no better or worse than 2.0's, and if you want to argue that point, remember that all storylines are the same when players get bored and quit before finishing them), but it wasn't until the GAME MECHANICS were patched up that the game started turning a profit.

Gee, maybe that means that gameplay can mean more to the success of a game than story. Imagine that...

[Erepio]

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u yet again fail to understand that it DOES effect beacuse content will no longer be gated behind story.....which ohhhhhh....i like it and its one of the reasons i play this instead of another MMO

also ofc FFXIV gets special treatment its not WoW its not Swtor its not GW2.....just as those games get specially treatment cuse they arent just another MMOs..they are a game on its own...stop generalizing

and sidenote stop comparing MMOs each mmo its has more or less different aspect that attract different ppl to it as i stated above

and im also a paying customer with the right to express my opinion just as you

ps: most MMOs dont directly gate content behind story ie Swtor could jump into raids without doing story just lvling....just because it has a background story doesnt mean that the core is the story

[ThanMazus]

stop comparing MMOs...
... Swtor could jump into raids without doing story just lvling...

"Don't compare MMOs, unless it fits my argument, in which case, go right ahead"

[Erepio]

"Don't compare MMOs, unless it fits my argument, in which case, go right ahead"

pls tell me how is giving an example of how FFXIV is different from other MMOs and thus saying MMOs shouldnt be compare due to doing things differently and shouldnt expect the to be the same across the board is wrong

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xept i dont see those hundreds of players that dont like the storty come into the forums and demand that to be chance...just as u dont see hundreds of ppl defending it either...why? cuse the forums has and always be the vocal minorit...the majority of ppl prefer to just enjoy the game as it is rather than come to forums and complain about it

[ThanMazus]

pls tell me how is giving an example of how FFXIV is different from other MMOs and thus saying MMOs shouldnt be compare due to doing things differently and shouldnt expect the to be the same across the board is wrong

You said don't compare, then did so yourself. I'm not arguing with you, just pointing out that it was a little silly to say one thing and then do the opposite yourself.

[RichardButte]

u yet again fail to understand that it DOES effect beacuse content will no longer be gated behind story.....which ohhhhhh....i like it and its one of the reasons i play this instead of another MMO

Why is content being gated behind story important?

Furthermore, what's the difference, if you went ahead and did all of the story quest in the order it was given to you anyway?

Is there a difference if you force yourself to get up at 7 in the morning and eat a diet of nothing but lettuce and fish, or if you have a personal trainer and dietician who does the same thing for you?

And for the record, quests would still generally follow the same path they do now where you need to do one before another pops up, except major points in the game where quest gates exist would no longer exist.

If you hit 50, you can walk into Inshard. Simple as that. If you want to do the story quest up until that point, sure, you'd have to go back and pick it up where you left it off.

[Erepio]

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why is so hard to understand that just as you consider doing dungeon, lvling with friend etc to be important and u want to do that to be unrestricted i on the other hand consider gating content behind story to be an important feature of the game?

at least instead of going oh "remove story completely" how about you try and meet as halfway like other ppl (and me since im ok wit trimming it down) that talk about ways of how the story can be streamlined..im actually liking some of the ideas presented

as a sidenote i like to note that while HW also has story gates, its mainly to the point and major stuff happening throughout so and a lot more streamlined, and u can basicly done all the things u just said since dungeon are usually only behind a limited amount of preparation quets (compare to 2.0 anyways) so its not like they havent taken no feedback at all

You said don't compare, then did so yourself. I'm not arguing with you, just pointing out that it was a little silly to say one thing and then do the opposite yourself.

fair enought....it might have been a bit silly...i just wanted to point out that a raid having story and raid being gated behind story isnt the same thing

[RichardButte]

why is so hard to understand that just as you consider doing dungeon, lving with friend etc to be important and u want to do that unrestricted i consider gating content behind story to be an important feature of the game so there happy?

Because whether or not my friend is gated behind content is 100% IRRELEVANT TO YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE GAME!

And it will get much much much worse in 3.0, like MUCH worse, the amount of "gating content" there is so in your face.

Sigh...

You've been beating this drum for like 10 pages now and, even though we've pointed out why you're wrong, you go right on beating it...

For starters, no, 3.0's story quest has NO WHERE NEAR the amount of pointless fetch questing that the MSQ until 50 had. Everything I do is generally important. The worst offender is when my team all split up to gather items for the Gnath while I went and killed some monsters to get their meat. Meanwhile, the other members did their own thing and gathered their own items that were necessary.

In 2.5, they would've made the player do ALL OF THAT...

Second, the problem with the 50 MSQ is that you CANNOT get any help while doing it, except for the instanced content. I can't help my friend run from one end of a zone to the other, just to mash through some dialogue about collecting tea leaves or some other pointless bullshit.

If I could somehow DO this for my friends, I would, but I can't, not unless I borrow their login and grind through that shit for them (which SE expressly forbids in the ToS, FYI).

Please, PLEASE, PLEASE at least come up with a new argument or something.

It's like trying to argue with a "flat-earther"...

"The Earth is flat."

"No, it's round. Here's a video of it from space, here are the calculations made by the greeks 2,000 years ago when they figured out its circumference and the shadow on the moon cast by the Earth is round."

"Uh but, no, the Earth is flat."

"..."

[Erepio]

Because whether or not my friend is gated behind content is 100% IRRELEVANT TO YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE GAME!

omg if its not gate for your friend its not gate for ANYONE ie me included so yes it completely relevant to my enjoyment of the game since it wont be gated for me either

[RichardButte]

omg if its not gate for your friend its not gate for ANYONE ie me included

And like I said in the post before last, how does content not being gated affect YOU when you can still choose to do all of the content that you would've had to do, IF it HAD been gated?