A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[Khalette]

It's so so so so so discouraging. They should really try to streamline the content for the lower levels. I've had several people quit before forty -- and it gets much worse for the lvl 50 content gap.

[Erepio]

PS: I just wanted to add that adjusting the MSQ doesn't mean removing: it means, well, adjusting, fixing, improving, making it go faster; as far as I'm concerned nobody really asked for removing it totally.

you should rly go back and read posts, some ppl, including the OP now are demanding the story to be completely optional rather than just trim a few quest down to streamline it (which btw would just mean u have to either do side quest ie more fetch/kill quest, fates or dungeons, when u could just do the main story quest since they up the exp gain for 1-49)

[Voltyblast]

you should rly go back and read posts, some ppl, including the OP now are demanding the story to be completely optional rather than just trim a few quest down to streamline it (which btw would just mean u have to either do side quest ie more fetch/kill quest, fates or dungeons, when u could just do the main story quest since they up the exp gain for 1-49)

And that means....flexibility? Making it optional doesn't mean removing it, as far as I'm concerned? The story is there just...you don't choose it. But it's there. Need I say more?

And about the story exp gain being upgraded: I barely noticed the difference. It's higher yes but I still needed to do optional quests and FATEs to keep up the levels. Right now I'm not seeing extremely big differences but on that regard I won't put a full judgement. I can definitely say more when I'm closer to higher levels.

[Erepio]

snip

and that is where the problem

the core of the game is its story, most dungeons are story related, PvP is behind story (need to get GC before u can do it), challenge log is behind story...in HW its gonna be even worse forl ppl that dont like story since even side-quest are behind story, flying is behind story... this is a STORY DRIVEN MMO

why ppl suddenly decided they dont like how the game works since 2.0 its been like that is beyond me


ppl are making it seem its easy to just make story optional, its not..... and as i posted YoshiP already said it is this way by design and that will not chance till like 4.0 (for stuff in 2.0-3.x)

Swtor is a single-player with endgame mmo features
WoW is an MMO with single player features
FFXIV is a story driven MMO


ps: So at the end if u dont like the story or heck if u cant stomach to just skip the cut-scenes then this game isnt for you and stop trying to make it "suit your needs"....some of us play the game cuse we like it the way it and its for us,...for you, there like a hundred of MMOs out there go pick one

[KisaiTenshi]

It's not that I play an MMO for its gameplay or anything!

PS: I just wanted to add that adjusting the MSQ doesn't mean removing: it means, well, adjusting, fixing, improving, making it go faster; as far as I'm concerned nobody really asked for removing it totally.

What people fail to grasp is that even if the story was optional, it would take them MORE time to actually get to the level required to unlock new content, and without people who played the story telling you how to get places, people would play the game for the free trial, get nowhere and quit. There is no sub gained or lost. The MSQ serves a purpose in providing experience you don't have to spend 10 hours grinding in the starter zone just to enter the first dungeon. It's no longer 1997, content is downloaded over the internet, and not on disc. There is no reason to make the storyline content optional aside from having already done it on another character on the same account and server.

People asking to stream line the content, haven't made any suggestions as to what. I can name a few...

The Umbral-era quests have 246, of which 22 you never see because 11 are specific starting quests. Those initial 11 quests plus the Opening needs a "I've already played FFXIV before, skip the tutorial" option that is presented before the game even starts. Essentially everything up to level 15 could be streamlined into 3 quests: Find all the zones in your starting area, Join a Grand Company, Join the Scions and just make those a series of checkboxes, where the lore-parts (where you go talk to everyone, like now) could be made optional (eg a X/20 steps would be shown on the quest shopping list) where you only get the experience if you do in fact talk to everyone. If you turn in the quest early, the NPC will make an excuse of something like "Y'shtola talked to everyone you missed", and then clear the completion flags for those quests.

Keep in mind that you still have the class quests up to level 30 where you then start the Job quests to unlock skills. Those quests often have their own combat quests that you only get to play once.

Between Level 15 and 50 is harder to streamline because that's when the narrative becomes interwoven with dungeons and primals being unlocked. So you can't create a quest to unlock something you don't yet know about.

Satasha is unlocked at level 15.
Tam-Tara at 16
Copperbell at 17
and Halitali at 20 (optional), along with Ifirit

There are 20 quests between level 15 and level 20.

But I'll just go back and mention that if you're someone who skips all the optional content, you would also miss:
Unlocking Halitali, Sunken Temple of Qarn, Cutter's Cry, Dzemael Darkhold, The Aurum Vale
Along with
All the Hard Mode dungeons except Snowcloak and Keeper of the Lake.

So 9 Dungeons (7 NM and 2 HM) are unlocked by storyline, the remaining (5 NM and 16 HM) are unlocked through optional level-specific quests.

So only 1/3rd of the game's dungeon content is even locked by the storyline.

For HW, 5 of the 8 dungeons are locked by the storyline.

For the 8-player/24-player raids, only the 2 of them are unlocked by the main storyline (Castrum Meridianum The Praetorium), The rest of them have their own quest chains, and aren't very long at all.

But as far as reducing the quests, since the player already has a class quest to complete, it makes more sense to try and trim down the 1-15 quests (which unlock the first dungeon) than it does to try and trim anything after as each dungeon is 3-4 levels apart, and in HW they are 2 levels apart.

If you do all the content (main scenario and optional quests) you only have to do each dungeon once or twice to clear the experience needed to unlock the next one. Not sitting there chasing fates for hours.

[Voltyblast]

and that is where the problem

the core of the game is its story, most dungeons are story related, PvP is behind story (need to get GC before u can do it), challenge log is behind story...in HW its gonna be even worse forl ppl that dont like story since even side-quest are behind story, flying is behind story... this is a STORY DRIVEN MMO

Hence why a lot of people want the story to be adjusted a bit: giving it more experience doesn't really mean it's faster when you still need to wait hours for a dungeon, which is story related, to pop so I can go further. That's why I would like at least the dungeons to be either removed OR be soloable in case it takes too long for getting a group.

As of now I was lucky enough to get a group on my alt for the first 3 dungeons, but how long my luck will run? I can skip the dialogues and cutscenes, but not a dungeon.

PS: also, starting to say that I need a company or "friends" just to get myself helped for a dungeon, isn't exactly a good solution.

PPS:

So at the end if u dont like the story or heck if u cant stomach to just skip the cut-scenes then this game isnt for you and stop trying to make it "suit your needs"....some of us play the game cuse we like it the way it and its for us,...for you, there like a hundred of MMOs out there go pick one

As I said, nobody likes to be slapped for having a different tastes than the others: with that behaviour you won't incite new players to continue playing.

[Erepio]

PPS:

As I said, nobody likes to be slapped for having a different tastes than the others: with that behaviour you won't incite new players to continue playing.

if u have different taste why are u play this when it doesn't suit ur taste? if some1 tells me that they like pvp and they interested in the game, i tell the to go play GW2 or ESO since pvp in FFXIV is just plain bad....if some1 tells me they dont like story i tell them that FFXIV is extremely story driven and they probably wont like it

i dont try to make a game to suit my taste, i play a game that suits my taste

ps: YoshiP already said they looking into making so u can take a grp of GC members or ur chocobo into a dungeon so u can solo it if u cant find a grp

[RichardButte]

i dont find "i dont like story and find it boring" a valid argument in making story optional is a good reason either

That's not the question.

The question is "Who gets harmed by making the story quest optional?" and the answer is "No one".

Even Yoshi-P has said that he's fine with people "fast forwarding" through the story. Putting that in TV terms, that'd be like watching all 28 (or whatever) seasons of the Simpsons on 30X speed.

At that point, WHY even have them do it?

if they dislike the story this mmo is not for them.even every single raidboss we do is tied into the story. so no they should go back to wow or swtor or whatever they played before.

Yeah, because people couldn't enjoy the challenge of playing Pac-Mac without first watching a 40 hour cutscene about what led him to be in a maze, eating dots and being chased by ghosts, right? :P

I hate to raise this comparison, but how do these people feel about gay marriage? Obviously, it's a much more important issue than that of a video game, but the same basic principles are being argued, here.

People are arguing against something that has zero effect on them (in this case, making the story optional) because...it makes them feel bad?

There is seriously no other reason.

And I can't wait for someone to play the "I'm offended" card on this. People who have no argument will never pass up the chance to act like they're offended because it's the only way they can see to try to add weight to their argument (hint: it won't work).

xept a lot of the ppl defending story, including myself have said that trimming it down is fine but apparently the OP, and the thread itself after a point, went from "trim it down" to "make it completely optional"

If you agree on the first point, good, that's progress.

On the second point, there's no argument against it, aside from the exact same rhetoric spewed by people who were against gay marriage.

Seriously...

"People shouldn't be allowed to get married because it ruins my marriage!"

"People shouldn't be allowed to skip the story because it ruins the game for me!"

Again, nowhere near as big of an issue (and I'm glad the supreme court finally did the right thing), but it's the same exclusionist logic at work here.

If someone enjoying something their way ruins it for you...well, what can be said except that you're a terrible person?

What people fail to grasp is that even if the story was optional, it would take them MORE time to actually get to the level required to unlock new content,

And what people like you fail to grasp is that people want to have the choice, and right now, they don't: it's either grind through 10+ hours of something they're entirely uninterested in, mashing the esc key the whole way, or they don't get to play with their friends.

If they want to grind dungeons, fates, leves, etc, WITH...THEIR...FRIENDS, that should be their CHOICE. After all, the MSQ basically separates them from their friends for 10+ hours, with the exception being the instanced content where their friends can at least come along to help.

If you want a single player FF game with a good story, there are plenty of those out there. In fact, XIV's is fairly weak in comparison most of the others (probably because the "protagonist" is a mute idiot who can only nod and do what other people tell them).

Once again, there are dozens of reasons to play an MMO that don't involve the story.

If you saw a player who was a level 50 Blacksmith, for example, who was never seen outside of Ul'dah, hammering away and selling their wares, would you chastise them for not experiencing the story? Would you verbally harass them until they left the game? Would you try to figure out who their retainers are (which is doable) and try to get people on your server to not buy their goods?

When your entire argument is "People have to do it THIS way or it makes me feel bad!", I'm sorry, but you're not even presenting a valid argument.

There is no downside to making the story optional. People can still fight these raid bosses without knowing the story behind them, and they can still pay $15 a month to do it.

[Erepio]

snip

if im a terrible person then what are you for trying to chance a game that ppl enjoy they way it is to something you enjoy...and rly? did u actually compare my enjoying the game the way the devs said they intended for to be played (being ok with ppl fast forwarding story is different than not doing it) with gay marriage..wich for the record i dont care one way or another cuse oh surprise it doesnt effect....chancing the core of a game i like tho does

and u also fail to understand the the core of the game is story literally everything is gate behind it..its not as simply as flipping a switch to make it optional and as some1 else mention aside form "make story optional" u havent said a single way to how that can be done when everything in 2.0 and 3.0 are behind said gate

ps: also "making progress" lol i have stated numerous times before that trimming down the story is fine

[RichardButte]

if im a terrible person then what are you for trying to chance a game that ppl enjoy they way it is to something you enjoy...

I'm a paying customer who would like to play the game with his friends, but there are aspects of the game preventing that from happening so I'm suggesting changes be made.

And once again, these changes do not affect you one BIT, so why are you arguing against them?

If I was suggesting that the story be REMOVED OUTRIGHT, then sure, then I would be arguing for something that affected you, but I'm not.

did u actually compare my enjoying the game the way the devs said they intended for to be played (being ok with ppl fast forwarding story is different than not doing it) with gay marriage..wich for the record i dont care one way or another cuse oh surprise it doesnt effect....chancing the core of a game i like tho does

Yup, and the very first thing I was waiting for was someone to get all "offended" by it because a poor debater will ALWAYS try to play the "I'm offended" card because they can't think of anything else to do when losing an argument.

Explain to me how the logic is different, then:

How is "This ruins the sanctity of FFXIV's storyline!" any different than "This ruins the sanctity of marriage!"?

Would you prefer I made religious inferences instead? Like saying that Ishgard represents heaven (and the game is CALLED "Heavensward", after all...) and that people who believe that other players aren't worthy to get in unless they grind through the tedium of the storyline represent oppressive religious zealots?

I can present dozens of different analogies, here, but in every single one, I promise, the people arguing against making the storyline optional are the bad guys because they're arguing against giving other players the freedom to do something because that freedom makes them feel bad personally.

In order for your argument to work, you have to actually have something tangible at stake to LOSE, and sorry but "the satisfaction of knowing that everyone had to be subjected to the story grind whether they wanted to or not" is NOT tangible!

and u also fail to understand the the core of the game is story literally everything is gate behind it..

The same can be said of EVERY MMO with a story out there, successful or otherwise.

Every bit of WoW's raids have story behind them, and it's no better or worse than FFXIV's.

FFXIV doesn't get special treatment because it's a FF game. 1.0 had a storyline, too (which was, again, no better or worse than 2.0's, and if you want to argue that point, remember that all storylines are the same when players get bored and quit before finishing them), but it wasn't until the GAME MECHANICS were patched up that the game started turning a profit.

Gee, maybe that means that gameplay can mean more to the success of a game than story. Imagine that...