With all these astrologian complain threads

[NorthernLadMSP]

They were replying to this (incorrect) statement

Sorry, there's nothing incorrect about it. Playing well as SCH is 150% simple as hell. It requires almost no effort to shine as a SCH.

[fanservice]

Sorry, there's nothing incorrect about it. Playing well as SCH is 150% simple as hell.

Easy to do the minimum required effort to keep people alive, sure.

It requires almost no effort to shine as a SCH.

This is where you're wrong. All of the following is the effort a SCH needs to 'shine'.

-Fairy positioning
-Direct control of when, and where the fairy uses abilities
-Knowing the fight well enough to swap in and out of cleric stance for damage, and healing
-Mitigating damage instead of just reacting to it
-Multitasking by putting out at least 3 sources of direct healing in under 4 seconds between fairy, aetherflow abilities, and a casted spell

Any fool could get away with not putting in effort, and do none of the above, but I wouldn't say they shine if they stand there, and wait for a reason to press the green button.

AST is fine they can keep up with the other healers if played correctly

They don't.

which is harder than the other classes due to AST need for situational awareness.

AST lack the abilities to do so.

They can still do their job, but they cannot address sudden issues mid fight as swiftly, nor as consistently as WHM, or much less SCH.

The more sources of healing not on standard GCD a job has, the easier it is for them to deal with mistakes, which is why SCH is especially strong at 'oh shit' moments. AST only has essential dignity with a 40 second downtime and HOTs if in diurnal sect. When something goes wrong, AST falls flat at pulling a group out of the fire compared to WHM, and SCH.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

AST lack the abilities to do so.

They can still do their job, but they cannot address sudden issues mid fight as swiftly, nor as consistently as WHM, or much less SCH.

Do elaborate

[fanservice]

Like I pointed out before Fanservice AST is fine compared to the other healers the difference is it's not as easy to play as SCH or WHM so people get frustrated and give up without mastering the job.

Mastery of the job aside, AST is just not as strong as a healer.

Do elaborate

Let's start with lustrate.

It's a 600 potency instant cast heal that requires 1 stack of aetherflow to use.

Indomitability is a 400 potency AOE heal that takes one charge of aetherflow to use.

You get 3 stacks every time you cast aetherflow. Aetherflow has a 1 minute cooldown.

Aetherflow cools down the moment is used, meaning often times, a SCH has access to at least 6 charges at the start of a boss fight.

Lustrate, aetherflow, and indomitability do not share GCDs with other spells since they're tagged as abilities, allowing a SCH to immediately begin casting physic, adloquium, etc without having to wait ~2.5 seconds to begin the cast after using lustrate, indom, or aetherflow. That is huge. AST's essential dignity works the same way, but it's the one ability they have like that, and it has a 40 second CD to use it once.

I didn't even mention how you can order the SCH's fairy while mid cast of anything else.

ASTs may be able to spam instant casts, but since they're still spells, they will incur the ~2.5 second GCD on nearly everything.

ASTs are hard limited by cast times/GCDs. SCHs ignore them at will. A SCH can have a 100 potency AOE hot out, lustrate someone for 600 potency, and finish an adloquium cast before an AST finishes casting helios twice without burning swiftcast (which the SCH has too), or lightspeed (which gimps the AST).

Other than that, SCHs, and WHMs have actual direct buffs to their healing output in fey illumination/rouse, and divine seal/presence of mind respectively. ASTs have... lightspeed, and synastry.

Fanservice I have played sch for a long time and I have been playing AST alot and I have had no issues keeping people up and to me when geared right and played right it feels just as good as when I played SCH.

Not saying AST is weak to the point it's unplayable, but they are weaker as a healer. If your group isn't on point, and mistakes are made, a SCH has a far easier time keeping the group in one piece between their aetherflow options, and fairy while still having spell GCDs free for casts. AST leans heavily on normal spells when essential dignity is used.

Forgot to mention, SCH MP sustain is on another level.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

snip

Well, if you're using solo healing situation:

Astrologian in Nocturnal sect has +5% added potency. Aspected benefic has 262 potency then and has an equally potent shield, totaling up to 524 potency (floored down). Not the most MP efficient thing to do, however. I really doubt scholars use 3 lustrates/minute. Or the very least, I don't.Aspected Benefic can still function as a panic button heal, however.

Indomitability has 400 potency, but cannot be spammed back to back. In nocturnal sect Helios is 96 potency behind on this, but can be casted in succession. If indomitability isn't available, Scholars will have to do with Succor. Which Aspected Helios is only 3 potency behind on with the same effect in Nocturnal Sect. Or recover more HP over time in Diurnal sect.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with the aetherflow abilities part. From what I understand from it, unless you're sleeping, wake up and noticed the tank/party is in bad condition, then yes, that would be beneficial. But if you're in the heat of battle and paying attention, how is this a "huge" benefit?

You also mentioned Astrologians can spam instant spells, but be locked for 2.5s every time for doing so because they're spells. Why does this not apply to Scholars who can only use 3 aetherflow stacks every minute? You could argue each use of Aetherflow ability has a 20s CD between each on average. Scholars do not ignore GCD/Cast times at will at all with the Aetherflow limitations. You could burn all your stacks in matter of seconds, if you want. But what about the remaining time while Aetherflow is on CD? Scholars are restricted to this.

And I'm not sure why you're mentioning the ability to control fairy mid cast here. What's the relationship in all this?

[fanservice]

Astrologian in Nocturnal sect has +5% added potency. Aspected benefic has 262 potency then and has an equally potent shield, totaling up to 524 potency (floored down).

Adloquium is 300/300, and when it crits, it's 450/900, but I'm not here to split hairs about spell potency, though adloquium's potential dwarfs it.

Not the most MP efficient thing to do, however. I really doubt scholars use 3 lustrates/minute. Or the very least, I don't

A SCH has the freedom to make that choice, if they feel it's necessary, which is alot more than an AST can say with their one essential dignity every 40 seconds.

Aspected Benefic can still function as a panic button heal, however.

If you need the heal now, yes, but otherwise it's a poor one; it incurs the 2.5 second GCD before you're allowed to begin to cast another spell. Lustrate does not do this.

After casting aspected benefic, you have to wait ~2.5 seconds to start your next spell cast, which means you'll finishing casting your next benefic 2 ~4.5 seconds later. Assuming no crits, that's almost 1200 potency worth of healing after ~4.5 seconds. You'd get a similar result casting benefic 2 twice. Since you're in nocturn, you have no HOTs.

That is a trade.

Lustrate is an ability with a 1 second cooldown on itself, and doesnt incur GCD on anything else. After casting it, and immediately following with adloquium, that's 1200 potency worth of healing in under 3 seconds.

That is going heal-positive.

You can only compare lustrate to essential dignity, and I already stated why aetherflow+lustrate is better.

Indomitability has 400 potency, but cannot be spammed back to back. In nocturnal sect Helios is 96 potency behind on this, but can be casted in succession. If indomitability isn't available, Scholars will have to do with Succor. Which Aspected Helios is only 3 potency behind on with the same effect in Nocturnal Sect. Or recover more HP over time in Diurnal sect.

You forgot emergency tactics that can turn the next succor into medica. You also didn't mention Eos bringing whispering dawn's AOE HOT that ticks for 100 potency for 21 seconds, and is used right after rouse to increase the fairy's output by 40% almost every time.

Anyway, I am aware. I admitted that SCH still has the least sustainable AOE healing pages ago despite the buffs. Thing is, the number consistent AOE damage heavy encounters that demand WHM-level AOE-healing potency have been dropping ever since 2.0 titan hard mode.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with the aetherflow abilities part. From what I understand from it, unless you're sleeping, wake up and noticed the tank/party is in bad condition, then yes, that would be beneficial. But if you're in the heat of battle and paying attention, how is this a "huge" benefit?

I'll answer your question with my own.

Would you prefer your one healing ability off the shared GCD to:

-Have ~800 potency, and be usable once every 40 seconds

or

-Have 600 potency, and be usable up to 3 times a minute, or 6 times if sitting on charges (which is pretty much what raids should wait on before every meaningful boss fight).

This is a very easy question.

You also mentioned Astrologians can spam instant spells, but be locked for 2.5s every time for doing so because they're spells. Why does this not apply to Scholars who can only use 3 aetherflow stacks every minute? You could argue each use of Aetherflow ability has a 20s CD between each on average. Scholars do not ignore GCD/Cast times at will at all with the Aetherflow limitations. You could burn all your stacks in matter of seconds, if you want. But what about the remaining time while Aetherflow is on CD? Scholars are restricted to this.

Read above. SCHs have more freedom to do that than AST, and do it more often. When a SCH runs out, they still have their fairy at their command supplementing the SCH's heals, while not requiring the SCH to give up a physic, or adloquium cast to do so, unlike the trade that is casting aspected benefic or benefic 2. The SCH can focus-fire 300 potency embrace heals from the fairy every 3 seconds along side their own 400 potency physic, or 300/300 adloquiums (which can crit for 450/900). That is literally free healing in every sense of the word, and ignores the SCH's GCD restriction.

The one and only time AST can do that is once every 40 seconds not counting HOTs that the fairy can out-heal. How hard is that to understand? SCHs are far more flexible, and not limited by as much game mechanics as ASTs. If you can't see why SCHs can address a sudden dire situation better than an AST, I can't possibly hammer it into you any harder

And I'm not sure why you're mentioning the ability to control fairy mid cast here. What's the relationship in all this?

Read above. It's another source of healing that's not on the SCH's GCDs. SCHs don't have to stop what they're doing to have eos cast whispering dawn or embrace.


There is still the matter of SCHs having stronger MP sustain, and Eos carrying fey illumination (20% healing buff for everyone in range, including the SCH, and the fairy).


AST just cannot match a SCH in any regard aside of group buffing (which SCH personal dps apparently beats anyway according to other posters), and AOE healing (which is an inconsistent issue that potentially two 30 second cooldown 300, and 400 potency AOE heals + 100 potency (140 with rouse) fairy HOT can handle well when the need arises).

[Kaizersan]

The thing is Aspect Benefic can be cast on the move while Aldo can\\'t allowing you to heal/barrier on the move in fights that are movement intense this can come in handy plus the use of synergy allows you to heal 2 people at once even if the other person that you are tethered to runs out of range they still get the heals allowing you to heal outside of the range of other healers.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Snip

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest after the first two sentences. You're not staying relevant to the comparison you made yourself.

[RichardButte]

Adloquium is 300/300, and when it crits, it's 450/900, but I'm not here to split hairs about spell potency, though ...
(snip)

Aaaaaand mic drop.

But seriously, I tend sit on three aetherflows for most of the cooldown, without needing them. Often, I'll switch to cleric stance and DPS for a while and when the tank finally gets in trouble, drop stance, single or double lustrate, repop stance and resume DPSing.

In most dungeons, I can get away with DPSing 80% of the time as SCH.

I'm not saying SCH is a hard class to play (not at all), but it DEFINITELY outshines the hell out of AST in raw healing power and mitigation and ultimately, that's what we're talking about here, healing potency, not how challenging the class is.

[Kaizersan]

Fanservice I have played sch for a long time and I have been playing AST alot and I have had no issues keeping people up and to me when geared right and played right it feels just as good as when I played SCH.