With all these astrologian complain threads

[Ashquar]

Because the comment I replied to said that scholar was easy. Which it is not. So it was a specific response to a specific statement. hence relevant.

[Shamirah]

I agree and I've been reserving too many comments about the job as a whole until I got a chance to play it entirely in end game scenarios.

From a theorycraft standpoint - it has the same baseline healing output as a WHM and SCH, they just lack the ability to significantly boost those numbers. Lack of MP regeneration skills is partially made up for having cheaper baseline cures.

To me, AST feels like a highly technical class that isn't quite as straight forward as SCH is. It rewards situational awareness and appropriate use of their toolkit - being able to make the current decisions with the cards you draw will be important. Yes, the cards have an RNG aspect to it but there's enough control to at least make use of every single draw you get.

No they don't have the same baseline healing output. They just don't.

[Ghishlain]

No they don't have the same baseline healing output. They just don't.

Cure - 400 Potency / GCD
Physik - 400 Potency / GCD
Diurnal Sect Benefic - 380 Potency @ 2.38 cast = 380 * (2.5/2.38) = 399 Potency / GCD
Nocturnal Sect Benefic - 380 Potency + 5% = 380 *1.05 = 399 Potency / GCD

Cure II - 650 Potency / GCD
Adlo - 600 Potency / GCD when correcting for shields (non crit)
Diurnal Sect Benefic II - 620 Potency @ 2.38 cast = 620 * (2.5/2.38) = 651 Potency / GCD
Nocturnal Sect Benefic - 620 Potency + 5% = 380 *1.05 = 651 Potency / GCD

Medica - 300 Potency / GCD
Succor - 300 Potency / GCD when correcting for shields
Diurnal Sect Helios - 290 Potency @ 2.38 cast = 290 * (2.5/2.38) = 304 Potency / GCD
Nocturnal Sect Benefic - 290 Potency + 5% = 380 *1.05 = 304 Potency / GCD

I dunno about you, but the baseline healing output looks quite similar to me. As I mentioned, AST lacks the means to easily boost those numbers in their favour, but it doesn't mean their actual bread and butter heals are weaker.

[Shamirah]

yeah and what about ALL their other healing spells ? cure 3 for example. Oh right.

[Parawill]

I love your math. Thank you Ghishlain. That's nice information to know ^_^

@Shamirah: As much as I hate to admit it, we don't have the tools for huge AoE heals at the moment. Maybe in conjunction with Aspected Helios & Collective Unconscious Diurnal, but yeah, White Mages are at the top for burst heals. Square Enix even said it themselves in the live letter. They want White Mages to be primarily a healing class. Astrologians are not a heal-only class.

[Ghishlain]

yeah and what about ALL their other healing spells ? cure 3 for example. Oh right.

I will reiterate.

I dunno about you, but the baseline healing output looks quite similar to me. As I mentioned, AST lacks the means to easily boost those numbers in their favour, but it doesn't mean their actual bread and butter heals are weaker.

If you look at the healing foundation of every healing class they have a few things in common:

1) A low tier single target cure
2) A high tier single target cure
3) An AoE cure
4) A means to remove status effects
5) A Raise type spell

Everything beyond that is what differentiates one class from another. Some classes will be able to excel in specific aspects of healing more than others.

[Shamirah]

Oh you're playing on semantics. AST has lower healing throughput that the other two. Without them using their cd. That's all. If all three healers had only Cure or equivalent, Cure 2 or equivalent, Medica I/II or equivalent.. yeah the output would be the same. Except it's not how it works.

Edit : just to be clear, i don't want to be as strong as an healer as WHM. I just want our CDs to be buffed/fixed and some of our cards skills changed/buffed.

[chumsy]

Medica - 300 Potency / GCD
Succor - 300 Potency / GCD when correcting for shields
Diurnal Sect Helios - 290 Potency @ 2.38 cast = 290 * (2.5/2.38) = 304 Potency / GCD
Nocturnal Sect Benefic - 290 Potency + 5% = 380 *1.05 = 304 Potency / GCD

yes, but then look at their Emergency heals:

WHM: Benediction 1x 300sec, Divine Seal 1x 60sec, Tetragrammaton 1x 60sec
SCH: Lustrate 3X 60sec
AST: Essential Dignity once every 40sec

AST gets a aoe stun at level 60? why? if anything it should be a huge Heal on a huge CD. Like everyone else has been stating, sure they can possibly keep up healing in a normal situation, but once shit hits the fan, they got nothing at their disposal to recover from it.

They should have just made this a hybrid class, dps/support/heals dont think its a viable healing class end game as it is now.

[Ghishlain]

Oh you're playing on semantics. AST has lower healing throughput that the other two. Without them using their cd. That's all. If all three healers had only Cure or equivalent, Cure 2 or equivalent, Medica I/II or equivalent.. yeah the output would be the same. Except it's not how it works.

Edit : just to be clear, i don't want to be as strong as an healer as WHM. I just want our CDs to be buffed/fixed and some of our cards skills changed/buffed.

yes, but then look at their Emergency heals:

WHM: Benediction 1x 300sec, Divine Seal 1x 60sec, Tetragrammaton 1x 60sec
SCH: Lustrate 3X 60sec
AST: Essential Dignity once every 40sec

AST gets a aoe stun at level 60? why? if anything it should be a huge Heal on a huge CD. Like everyone else has been stating, sure they can possibly keep up healing in a normal situation, but once shit hits the fan, they got nothing at their disposal to recover from it.

That's the fundamental flaw with AST that most posters don't seem to understand and the point I was aiming for. AST isn't weaker in the traditional sense that they're weaker. The lack the proper "O SNAP" tools that WHM and SCH bring to the table.

People screaming "OMG AST HAS WEAKER HEALS!" because they see Benefic, Benefic II, and Helios having a lower base potency when they don't realize those base potency values need to be adjusted by their sect and that's not the case.

The case is that AST lacks the means to dig any group outta trouble, and yes, that needs to be adjusted.

The point I'm trying to highlight in general is that screaming for better cures isn't going to make AST more desirable. Asking for better reactionary buttons is the way to go if you want to buff ASTs healing desirability.

[EDIT]
In the vein of this, some things I'd consider changing

Essential Dignity - Reduce the CD of this ability to 20-25 seconds. If played properly, it almost always be equal or better than Tetragrammaton in healing.
Lightspeed - Have it grant Haste to the AST as well, so they can actually heal more often while the buff is up

[Shamirah]

Ah ok then. My bad, missunderstood you Ghislain