A different approach to "fixing" Astrologian.

[loreleidiangelo]

So, I've seen quite a few threads on here talking about buffing the Astrologian job via buffs to their healing potency, or buffs to the effect on their cards. While I understand the concerns that people have, I think that buffing AST's healing potencies will remove the challenging aspect of their core play that I love, and I think that buffing their cards has too much potential to completely sway an encounter, simply because for every bout of bad RNG you have with them, another player elsewhere has a bout of ridiculously GOOD RNG, and 6 instead of half a dozen isn't really any better, frankly.

I posted this in another thread, but it was admittedly a bit off-topic, and counter to the thread creator's intention, so I figured I'd repost it here to see if anyone else had similar thoughts. I've also added some things that I hadn't thought of before when I originally replied to the thread.



So, here's the thing: potency increases aren't going to cut it. Mitigation of RNG needs to be put in effect to NOT ONLY reduce the likelihood of Drawing 4 Spires in a row in a caster-heavy group, but also to mitigate the possibility of drawing 4 BALANCES in a row, too. This is why "stronger card buffs" won't work - there's a possibility that you could Draw 4 Balances in a row, and if the potency is upped to 25% damage up that's just insane. Rather than giving the cards more "oomph", as some people have put it, there simply needs to be a stopgap in place so there is some measure of reliability.



My suggestions:

-Give each card an "internal timer" of 89 seconds. If a card is Drawn from your deck, it cannot be drawn again for another 89 seconds. Assuming both "perfect" and "worst" card use, this will essentially mean that the same card cannot be Drawn twice in a row, but CAN be pulled from the deck again on a third Draw.
What this will do: It will ensure that if you Shuffle a card, Royal Road it, or manually discard it by right-clicking off the Draw buff, that you cannot Draw it again immediately thereafter. It would not affect USAGE of said card, so that if you Royal Roaded a Bole card you could still use Bole if you had one in your Spread. This would prevent multiple Spire/Ewers/Spears, but would also prevent multiple Arrows/Balances as well, making this change more of a QoL sidegrade than a buff.

-Retain the original potency of the cards when their effects are expanded under Royal Road. The fact that it doesn't is frankly a little silly.
What this will do: It's pretty obvious...this is a buff intended to make the "optimal combination" of Expanded Royal Road and Balance a little less lulzy.

-Combine certain cards into the same effect. Notably, combine Ewer and Spire into a flat TP/MP reduction (NO regens; we are intended to supplement MCH/BRD, not replace them), and Bole and Spear into a damage taken and CD reduction. Leave Arrow and Balance separate, for a total of 4 possible cards you can Draw, rather than 6. Redo the Royal Road effects such that the damage reduction/CD reduction card offers Extended Royal Road, the TP/MP reduction card offers Enhanced Royal Road, and both Balance and Arrow separately will offer Expanded Royal Road.
What this will do: You will almost guaranteed have to Spread Balance for the AOE effect, as under my proposed Draw internal card timer it will be impossible to Draw twice in a row for the Expanded Balance effect. However, you could still try to sacrifice Arrow for the Expanded effect, then hope for a Balance on your next turn, or vice-versa if you wanted the AOE attack speed increase. Also, Bole could be used for tank busters, or it could be used on DPS to shorten their CDs...it would give AST more flexibility with their card usage while reducing the odds of Drawing something you don't want. In addition, this change would give you 50% odds of Drawing a straight DPS increase, rather than the 33% we have currently. It will also allow for more involvement with Spread, as you will be forced to decide whether you want to AOE a CD reduction/defense up card, extend an MP/TP reduction, or enhance a defense up/CD reduction card. A CONCERN: with no more halved potencies from AOE RR, that the Expanded effect will be the only one used more often than not. Fine-tuning needed.

-Give us a 30% spell-based HP restoration increase move on a 120 second CD. This is the halfway mark for CDs between Divine Seal and Fey Illumination, and this would fit in nicely with AST's current purported role. This would also make it so that the move won't ALWAYS be up with Lightspeed, which has a 90-second CD.
What this will do: give us more clutch healing options for "oh shit" moments, and can be used in conjunction with Lightspeed to offset the potency loss (on healing spells, at least...gg still on those fast-cast Gravities). Since all heals cast under these effects still cost the same amount of MP, it's unlikely that this will be "spammed" as part of AST's regular toolkit, but will provide much-needed recovery power for when encounters go south.

-Either remove the movement/cast restriction on Collective Unconscious, or adjust the skill effect so that the reward is worth the high risk. Under Diurnal Sect, the regen effect is quite powerful, and has a niche use in pre-recovering the party right before a big boss AOE if the boss is currently immobile/untargetable, but under Nocturnal Sect it's basically a Sacred Soil that leaves you unable to move or cast during its duration. A current workaround is to simply do your mitigation prep first, pop the skill, then cancel it immediately after, but it seems like such a waste to do so. Rather than buffing or tweaking the ability, I'd rather it just be a bubble centered around you, with the freedom to move and cast while it's up.
What this would do: It would still be a bit situational to use (can you imagine rushing in to pop your bubble over the tank during a tank buster? lol), but it would at least make the effect SOMEWHAT comparable to Sacred Soil, especially since CU has a longer effect. Under Diurnal it would be quite interesting, as you could move the regen effect to people who need it, then possibly move it to other party members who need it after the original group is topped off. (Might be a little too OP? Certainly funny to imagine, though.)

-Celestial Opposition needs a better effect. A stun that won't work on most serious end-game raid bosses, and a 5-second card buff extender with a ridiculously short range? At LEAST attach a moderate damage effect to it (WHM get Fluid Aura every 30 seconds for no MP and completely off the GCD; I don't see why we can't get a small oGCD no-MP-cost DPS move too), and increase the range on the card buff extension. Also, FIX THE BUG WITH THE FOOD BUFF ALREADY!
What this would do: I actually think the 5 second AOE buff extender isn't bad (and would work pretty well under the changes I proposed to Expanded Royal Road), it just needs a larger increase to its radius so that you don't have to holler at people to come hug the boss every time you want to use it. I'm on the fence about extending the card buffs by 10 seconds...it seems a little OP, but the odds of having Expanded Royal Road up when you have Celestial Opposition off CD aren't THAT high, and it IS supposed to be our "god-mode" level 60 skill.

-Either shorten the CD on Luminiferious Aether, or make it a flat %-based MP restoration like Aetherflow/Assize. All potency-based MP refreshes scale like CRAP with gear, and Astrologian will be no exception. The potency refresh scales off of your BASE MP, which doesn't seem like a big deal now, but will be a HUGE deal as our ilevels increase and we gain an extra 5k MP (or whatever arbitrary value) off of gear.
What this would do: The CD is still 120 seconds, so a 20% flat MP restoration doesn't seem too broken, and reduces AST's reliability on MCHs or BRDs. SCH has a 20% MP restoration on a 60-second cooldown, and WHM has a 10% MP restoration on a 90-second cooldown (plus the refresh they get every 120 seconds from Shroud of Saints, too...). I hardly think it would be "broken" to let AST have a 20% MP restoration every 2 minutes, even IF their heals are more MP-friendly than SCH or WHM. MP restores that operate off our noob base piety are bad, mmmmkay?


These are the changes I've been pondering... I think "flat buffs because RNG sucks" is a solution with too much potential to swing the scales in the OPPOSITE way. I'd much rather reduce/mitigate the RNG of the buffs themselves through both a reduction of the sheer NUMBER of cards you can possibly Draw, as well as the ELIMINATION of getting the same card multiple times in a row.


tl;dr: 30% healing potency up "oh shit button" on reasonable CD, reduce cards from 6 to 4 so that the chance of drawing the one you "want" is 25% instead of 17%, tweak some of our post-50 skills to make them a little less WTF-worthy, and make it so that you can't draw the same card twice in a row for less rage-inducing Spire/Spear/Ewer chains.

Thoughts? I tried to draft a workaround for the buffs that wasn't just MOAR POWAHHHH, since as I said, under a bout of good RNG that would be just as broken as under a bout of bad RNG. I feel like, as an Astrologian, that I want more CONTROL over my destiny, not the ability to simply wish for more "drastic" outcomes.

[Donarudo]

I actually agree on every point you have stated here. It seems what you have layed out here would certainly nullify most if not all of the mana issues we are facing right now, without breaking the job or making it OP. Thank you for the breakdown.

[Roxas_Andrade]

Either shorten the CD on Luminiferious Aether, or make it a flat %-based MP restoration like Aetherflow/Assize.[/B] All potency-based MP refreshes scale like CRAP with gear, and Astrologian will be no exception. The potency refresh scales off of your BASE MP, which doesn't seem like a big deal now, but will be a HUGE deal as our ilevels increase and we gain an extra 5k MP (or whatever arbitrary value) off of gear.
What this would do: The CD is still 120 seconds, so a 20% flat MP restoration doesn't seem too broken, and reduces AST's reliability on MCHs or BRDs. SCH has a 20% MP restoration on a 60-second cooldown, and WHM has a 10% MP restoration on a 90-second cooldown (plus the refresh they get every 120 seconds from Shroud of Saints, too...). I hardly think it would be "broken" to let AST have a 20% MP restoration every 2 minutes, even IF their heals are more MP-friendly than SCH or WHM. MP restores that operate off our noob base piety are bad, mmmmkay?

I guess this would be a good solution, but it's hard to be calculated. Since it is a skill that also reduces enmity (Quelling Strikes-style), it's hard to calculate the MP regen potency over 15sec of effect. It would have to change the potency of the skill everytime you change gear. Impossible.
A good solution would make the spell instant, recovers a MP percentage and halves enmity like Elusive Jump. A 90sec cooldown would be optimal.90sec cooldown would be optimal.

[loreleidiangelo]

I guess this would be a good solution, but it's hard to be calculated. Since it is a skill that also reduces enmity (Quelling Strikes-style), it's hard to calculate the MP regen potency over 15sec of effect. It would have to change the potency of the skill everytime you change gear. Impossible.
A good solution would make the spell instant, recovers a MP percentage and halves enmity like Elusive Jump. A 90sec cooldown would be optimal.90sec cooldown would be optimal.

I forgot about the enmity reduction, to be frank. >__> Yes, giving it a dump rather than a Quelling-like application would suffice.

[Ayrie]

The only real thing I would add is making royal road reset the cooldown of draw to like 15 seconds. As it is now... 1 min to pull off a Royal Road combo at a critical time in the fight... Unpredictable. As it stands, the only use I find for royal road in combat is to flush the double bole/spire.... You know, the worst card you could see shuffled just to come up again?

Any other time I have issues justifying burning a decent card to RR instead of just using it outright due to 1 RR card effect usually doesn't compete with 2 individual effects (RNG factors aside).

MP and throughput sounds spot on though.

[loreleidiangelo]

The only real thing I would add is making royal road reset the cooldown of draw to like 15 seconds. As it is now... 1 min to pull off a Royal Road combo at a critical time in the fight... Unpredictable. As it stands, the only use I find for royal road in combat is to flush the double bole/spire.... You know, the worst card you could see shuffled just to come up again?

To be fair, under my proposed change this would be impossible to have occur.

[TonberiScholar]

I like these ideas, but I don't think they'll be able to actually get rid of cards. We'll still need six (due to the lore and due to the way the class quests are structured).

We need to go more towards "every card at least does something to every potential target, even if it's not optimal". That way you're rewarded for playing the right card on the right member but not penalized as harshly for RNG being RNG.

My proposals:

Balance, Bole, Arrow - kept the same

Ewer: Combines current Spire and Ewer to give 20% TP/MP Cost Reduction. If this is too weak compared to new Spire, add a 10% healing buff.

Spire: New Spire grants 10% increased TP/MP Restoration including TP gen on autoattacks, Bard songs/MCN turrets and refresh ticks (but doesn't restore TP/MP in and of itself)

Spear: Stays 20% cooldown reduction, but applies to abilities already on cooldown when the card hits. This makes it easier to coordinate and use.

That way we keep two "resource-related" cards, but make them easier to use regardless of the party composition.

[caylarin]

I actually like all of these ideas, especially TonberiScholar's idea, that would make the cards so much more useful, I seriously 100% want that and im not about buffing AST at all. I am a good player and ahve had 0 problems so far, even with most DRK. But THIS is something that wouldnt "buff" us but would make us more useful.

[AlphaFox]

I do agree with Collective Unconscious, I really have a hard time trying to figure out when is the best time, if ever, to use it. I stay in Nocturnal unless I am paired with a Scholar or another Astrologian who wants to be in Noct (being the 2 primal hardmodes only interaction with other healers) but ever since I got it at 58 unless its going to be an unavoidable AOE from the boss, it seems like a 10% reduction will not be of any help to have their healer channeling a bubble. I agree allowing us to move around with it and cast, unlike Sacred Soil you wont see all the DPS running to follow you around (cept maybe bards and machinsts)

[loreleidiangelo]

I like these ideas, but I don't think they'll be able to actually get rid of cards. We'll still need six (due to the lore and due to the way the class quests are structured).

We need to go more towards "every card at least does something to every potential target, even if it's not optimal". That way you're rewarded for playing the right card on the right member but not penalized as harshly for RNG being RNG.

My proposals:

Balance, Bole, Arrow - kept the same

Ewer: Combines current Spire and Ewer to give 20% TP/MP Cost Reduction. If this is too weak compared to new Spire, add a 10% healing buff.

Spire: New Spire grants 10% increased TP/MP Restoration including TP gen on autoattacks, Bard songs/MCN turrets and refresh ticks (but doesn't restore TP/MP in and of itself)

Spear: Stays 20% cooldown reduction, but applies to abilities already on cooldown when the card hits. This makes it easier to coordinate and use.

That way we keep two "resource-related" cards, but make them easier to use regardless of the party composition.

I'm not opposed to the idea of making all of the cards "useful", but I think that method is still too reliant on RNG. Draw Bole during a burn phase? Lel. Draw TP/MP reduction during a phase change, when the boss is invulnerable? Kek. Yes, Shuffle and Royal Road can "reduce" these likelihoods, but Royal Road forces you to sit idle for another 30 seconds before being able to Draw again, and Shuffle won't be up for every Draw that you do (and even assuming you CAN'T Draw the same card again, as I proposed, that's still only a 20% chance of Drawing the card that you want after Shuffling, whereas if we only had four cards total that would jump to 33%).

I appreciate the concern about the lore, but it wouldn't be hard to revamp the job quest to only give us four possible cards. Tie the other two heavenly gates into other skills, like an "oh-shit" heal button and/or another card manipulation ability. I love the lore in this game as well, but detest it when people use it as a shield for imperfect game design (RNG-reliant battle classes like AST and MCH, GC restrictions for Frontlines PVP, etc).