The Definitive Dark Knight Guide

[TouchandFeel]

@Docfiord

Just pointing out some quick erroneous equivalents.
- Shadow Wall /= Sentinel. Shadow Wall is 30% reduction, Sentinel is 40%.
- Living Dead /= Hallowed Ground. Living Dead keeps you from going below 1hp but if you are not healed to full you die. Hallowed negates damage entirely.

While they are intended to achieve the same goal, they do not do so equally.

[Ipkonfig]

WAR/PLD - Designed for level 50, gained new mechanics in expansion.
DRK- Designed for level 60.

I don't know why my lodestone is behind, but DRK is a great tank, and I run without Grit often because I just don't need it unless I'm pulling big groups.

I also ran a bunch of the 50 instances through Roulette for exp while leveling and had zero problems, and honestly it felt like my PLD. Maybe you just aren't use to the DRK style?

I get zero complaints about taking to much damage, and healers spend a lot of time DPSing, never even a blip of threat issues, amazing DPS on DRK so the pace is great. All in all I'm pretty happy with it as a tank. I would like some more utility, but once I get i180 I'll level WAR/PLD as well so I can do whatever, granted after seeing the DRK DPS I don't want to switch hahaha.

@Touchand Feel - You are also incorrect, Living Dead only requires you be healed for your max HP before the timer ends, assuming you have 17,000 HP you just need to recieve 17,000 points worth of healing, you do not need to be at 100% HP when it ends that would be almost impossible to pull off. Of course Shadow Wall and Sentinel are not equal, but they both serve the same purpose, breaking a tank busters. If a boss in Alex ends up having a magical based tank buster than Dark Knight will be in a great position, and it's pretty safe to assume there will be, they designed the new content along side the new classes.

[HidingYoshis]

We are on the same level as PLDs in terms of mitigation. 20% Baseline mitigation from out stances

Shadowskin = Rampart
Shadowwall = almost Sentinel
Dark Dance = Bulwark
Dark Mind = ???
Living Dead = Hallowed Ground
400 potency self cure every 6 GCDs at least

We agree on this at least. I'm taking very similar damage to what I would on my Paladin. The only thing I *do* disagree with is Living Dead = Hallowed Ground. Hallowed Ground is a lot of additional mitigation because you're not losing health for its duration.

I do believe it's better than Holmgang though, and for a longer duration at that.

Don't get any complaints on the damage I'm taking, and actually get a lot of compliments. I think a lot of people are more used to the self healing from Warrior being absolutely ridiculous.

[JayCommon]

Decent guide OP but it really needs to be amended to include Carve And Spit and a viable opener for 60s, because what you have is not going to get it done.

First of all, this:

I disagree with opening with a Souleater combo, as the people I run with will often start unloading their max DPS in their openers and not having that Power Slash could spell disaster.

The above statement is true. If you can start an enmity generating combo with your Souleater and actually establish anything, your DPS is just plain awful. When I was running duty finder dungeons with the type you run across often in DF, yes a Souleater combo is enough. As soon as I got into Bismarck Extreme with real players with capable DPS outputs, that was quickly squashed. If you want to weave into your DPS/self-heal/debuff combos quickly and efficiently, you need to open with a Dark Arts Power Slash combo so you have sufficient threat for a while.

Secondly, on page 6 there are two very good explanations as to why your off-tank DPS opener is wrong. Dark Arts Carve and Spit is an off-GCD 450 potency attack. You can start with Scourge, then get in a DA Carve attack before your first Hard Slash, and Dark Arts is back up before your Souleater ender. Or you can proc your DA early also, either way works but what's important is not leaving the skill out completely. It's huge DPS.

Everything else is a decent starter guide.

Also I want to clear this up:

Beyond that, tanks haven't been able to dodge anything in any turn of BCOB yet, featherfoot or not. If Alexander is the same the evasion is completely useless. In that case, they need to change something up there.

This is not true. I ran undersized party of 2tanks 1 heal a few days ago to see if we could beat turn 5. ACT caught me dodging Plummet about 35% of the time. I literally was watching it pop up say "Plummet - Dodge"

We all had a good laugh. Queue the "darkness" jokes about why Twin couldn't hit me with a body bomb.

We couldn't kill Asclepius quick enough. We ran DRK/WAR/AST and handled everything just fine but we couldn't achieve DPS needed on the big snake before Twin dropped back down. Dropping out of Grit on DRK while main tanking that snake isn't possible either, because the damage coming in from having 4 stacks is too high.

[Rover1983]

WAR/PLD - Designed for level 50, gained new mechanics in expansion.
DRK- Designed for level 60.

I don't know why my lodestone is behind, but DRK is a great tank, and I run without Grit often because I just don't need it unless I'm pulling big groups.

I also ran a bunch of the 50 instances through Roulette for exp while leveling and had zero problems, and honestly it felt like my PLD. Maybe you just aren't use to the DRK style?

I get zero complaints about taking to much damage, and healers spend a lot of time DPSing, never even a blip of threat issues, amazing DPS on DRK so the pace is great. All in all I'm pretty happy with it as a tank. I would like some more utility, but once I get i180 I'll level WAR/PLD as well so I can do whatever, granted after seeing the DRK DPS I don't want to switch hahaha

Wait, what? Without Grit? How the hell did you survive? I run WITH Grit on and get absolutely pummeled compared to my Warrior and Paladin.

[Docfiord_Fowling]

@Docfiord

Just pointing out some quick erroneous equivalents.
- Shadow Wall /= Sentinel. Shadow Wall is 30% reduction, Sentinel is 40%.
- Living Dead /= Hallowed Ground. Living Dead keeps you from going below 1hp but if you are not healed to full you die. Hallowed negates damage entirely.

While they are intended to achieve the same goal, they do not do so equally.

Yep, that's why I said Shadow wall is ALMOST Sentiel

[Ipkonfig]

To be fair, your WAR is 34 and your GLD is 15 I don't really think you know at all what it's like to tank with them. Having been a tank since 1.0, played Warrior, and Steel Cyclone spam was AWESOME! I played Warrior at 2.0 release, got my full Darklight, got my Bravura +1 and stormed into Coil, it was rough but doable, then the Warrior buff and it was amazing, but the stigma from release WAR has never gone. I fear this same stigma is being applied to DRK now just because people have issues playing them.

[TouchandFeel]

Yep, that's why I said Shadow wall is ALMOST Sentiel

Yes, I know that you did, but if I factor in the "almost" you are directly contradicting yourself. I chose to highlight that singular statement as erroneous and not the foundation of your entire statement. You stated that PLD and DRK mitigation are on the same level or in other word equivalent. Even if every other equivalence statement was correct, which they weren't as I pointed out with Hallowed and Living Dead, then you have already pointed out that there is a difference between Shadow Wall and Sentinel. If there is a difference they are not the same. While DRK is not as bad off as some are making it seem, it is the "almost" or "not quite" as good as that people have issue with.

[Rover1983]

@ Ipkonfig

Actually, my character's are higher then that, like you said, Lodestone must be behind, or wrong or something because my characters are higher then that. That has nothing to do with what we were talking about up above... You mentioned tanking while NOT in Grit stance and being just fine which I find hard to believe. Not saying its not possible but to say that healers were dpsing more then healing I think is a little far fetched.

I think having issues PLAYING the class vs the class having issues itself is a big difference. The class is brand new, its bound to have problems. From my own personal experiences and many other tanks in my FC, we all agree that the DRK is the squishiest of the tanks, and while dealing decent damage for a tank, is still behind the Warrior. Now, I have yet to hit 60, get better gear and get all my abilities so it may change but CURRENTLY at my lvl it has its fair share of issues and survivability is the biggest one I see with it.

[HidingYoshis]

Now, I have yet to hit 60, get better gear and get all my abilities so it may change but CURRENTLY at my lvl it has its fair share of issues and survivability is the biggest one I see with it.

This is your issue. At 60, DRKs aren't really much different than PLDs. I get complimented all the time by my lack of damage taken.

Sole Survivor is very good for burst survival, and rotating your CDs properly means you're not taking much.

I've tanked with all three, and DRK is around the same level as my PLD in terms of mitigation. It loses to Warrior because the self healing in AoE situations is ridiculous, they're still the kings of AoE tanking.