Is it me, or is DRK really isn't that super great, nor super bad.

[Pinkie_Pie]

Warrior pulls more damage, warrior gots more health, I hope it doesn't stay like this with DRK being overlooked over a warrior doing this xpac.

[Timat]

Basically, give Delirium the slashing debuff from Warrior/Ninja, or perhaps a magic damage debuff, anything to make it worth using next to a Monk, and to give us a role as offtank, instead of competition for the awesome PLD tank.

And Reprise needs to have a way of near-permanent uptime.

These changes would go a long way to make us more feasible as both MT and OT. As it is, we really suck in conjunction with a PLD.

But...why?

Why should PLD have no competition though?

[Rbstr]

If any utility needs to be changed its Delirium, not reprisal (beyond it lasting a bit longer so it can be timed better). The int down is nice and all, but chances are MNK's will still find a way into raids. DK buff's both the MNK's damage and Ifrit's damage, Delirium doesn't really contribute much at all. It either needs to be DK, or something completely different.

Int down was certainly a lifesaver in Coils earlier in, but I agree, maybe it should keep the int-down as is but also have a second effect that doesn't get overwritten by dragon kick? Slashing could be good, just don't have the healing reduction of Storms Eye. So it gets overwritten by the Ninja or Warrior's debuff.
That way you'll cover one debuff hole if you don't have a war/nin or monk.

But maybe my determination to find the shine to this class has made me jaded to its flaws =\

I think people are in a mood to greatly exaggerate how much everything sucks right not? DRK as a main-tank, at worst, just a tiny bit off in terms of defensive CDs than the others (or really quite better, if you're getting hit by magic...so you mileage may vary here). But as an off-tank, it lacks a bit of party utility, since reprisal is a parry proc it doesn't really have anything but delerium and that's going to be overwritten often.

Yes you can. If you can't, then feel free to find another explanation for the couple of times, for instance, I've dodged a Flatten.

I've never seen a dodge, as tank, against a coil boss and I've taken featherfoot a few times to try. Seen plenty of 0-damage hits from blocks + good mitigation and stuff, but never a dodge. I'd believe you that it could happen but it must be an exceptionally small chance.

[Tila]

I actually don't mind the way things are being done -- It's better to release a new class to be middle of the road and buff as needed, instead of making it the new hotness and nerfing to bring it back in line with the other classes.

Its not middle of the road though. Its in the gutter.

DRK is a mish mash of RNG, button bloat, and lessons never learned from 2.0 WAR.

[Rhaja]

Just random thoughts and what not's to pass the time (at work), but what if Delirium was changed to -%10 magic damage instead of int? The difference being that it could stack with MNK's DK. It would also still fit the theme we're seeing of specializing against magic damage.

But I'm not a number cruncher, wouldn't know if that'd be better or worse than just INT down.

[Faytte]

Yes you can. If you can't, then feel free to find another explanation for the couple of times, for instance, I've dodged a Flatten.

Blatant lie detected.

[Casper]

Just random thoughts and what not's to pass the time (at work), but what if Delirium was changed to -%10 magic damage instead of int? The difference being that it could stack with MNK's DK.

The really, really big issue here is that you would just stack those two... And trivialize some mechanics once again. Devs are trying to make their content last by having hard hitting tank busters, aoe abilities, and dps checks, and thus forcing people to gear up. If they allow for too many buffs to stack, then a lot of mechanics that are supposed to be challenging / require better gear / etc can just be made trivial.

[Xenosan]

As for squishy DRK, I haven't done any old lvl50 content and thought DRK was worse off then PLD/WAR. Although did have a dungeon boss situation where Healer died. Was able to finish off the boss before wipe, but required using Living Dead and died right after the buff wore off (just after the boss). If I was a WAR/PLD i wouldn't have died.. so idk LD meh(?)

Can't say for sure about new lvl60 content until I've lvl'd PLD and WAR as well. Need to test them personally. Right now everyone is projecting subjective bias. Need to have all at 60, personally experience each one at 60 in the same context, then know. Right now it's all 'my color RED is better than your BLUE'

If DRK OT dps turns out to be lowest as some are suspecting, a small change I imagine that isn't too breaking would be

adding a +percent to damage dealt whilst under Dark Arts. This effect doesn't stack with the Dark Arts consuming WS/CD (so Dark Arts > Souleater wouldn't feel the boost), but every WS/CD used before consuming the Dark Arts would. This would require player finesse to see a dps increase, and require forward-thinking with regard to DA activation within rotation.

ie: ( Syphon > Dark Art's > Souleater ) would be wasting the damage boost, where as ( Dark Art's > Syphon > Souleater ) would offer a damage increase to Syphon. This way Dark Arts is applying a damage increase to all WSs, not just the few WSs designed to consume it.

A change to Delirium would be to add a Darkness Vulnerability Up debuff. This would make Delirium worth maintaining for DRK's personal DPS. Just some thoughts atm

[Faytte]

The issue with DRK OT isnt its dps its that it cant apply meaningful debuffs that help the raid. War can add -10% damage and paladin can add -10% strength which are far--far more useful than -10% int (that the monk is keeping up anyways if you have one).

As an MT...eh....

Darks have tons of powers that replace other powers. Got Abyssal Drain? By by unleash (less it procs for free). Dark Passenger is a waste of mana that you only use if you are dripping in mana. Otherwise, it actually plays similar to old paladin in that you are mostly tied into the same combo of soul eater spam once you have aggro--meh? Lots of clunkyness to be frank, and while it looks GREAT and has some nifty things, in the end I don't know what the purpose of it is. It doesnt have great burst self healing, or good defensives---where it does excel is aoe damage and aggro, but that is something that applies to dungeons and not raids.

[Tila]

The really, really big issue here is that you would just stack those two... And trivialize some mechanics once again. Devs are trying to make their content last by having hard hitting tank busters, aoe abilities, and dps checks, and thus forcing people to gear up. If they allow for too many buffs to stack, then a lot of mechanics that are supposed to be challenging / require better gear / etc can just be made trivial.

So, its an MMORPG?