Gil Toss Ability to drain gil out of the economy?

[darkstarpoet1]

Something I would spend millions on if SE let me, is housing. I wanna slowly build up my house to be huge! Let me upgrade the size and things and I'll pay a fortune! I'll save up for it. lol And then once it's done, I'll spend on decorating it! XD
That's just one idea though. I hope housing is very customizable (especially in size) and very expensive.
Not just housing though! I still want ships! It should be very expensive to build ships. X3

now if this was the thread starter it would have alot more support by the people with millions of gil. this is something i would spend millions on myself building up.

what i would not do is spend 10's of millions worth of gil into a chance of getting an item by giving gil away to get a piece of gear that is not vastly superior to anything i have.

btw @ the economist please tell me you didn't really say 3000 million did you?

lets say 3000 million.

[Phenidate]

1. I'm nowhere near poor.
2. I'm an economist irl
3. At the moment the FFXIV economy will not function properly at PS3 release due to some people holding on to 100's of mil. If that gil is not drained prior to the PS3 release the games economy will fall apart quickly. This happened in FFXI due to similar reasons as a result of Rusty Cap Fish-botting.
4. What I proposed here is basic economic incentive-based policy. The policy creates an incentive for capable individuals to pool gil from across the server into their personal hands and then depost that gil into a gil sink to remove it from the economy. It's not magic, it's not revolutionary. It's quite simple.
edit 5: This does not make rich people "poorer", it just converts their gil into an item. A possibility would be to make those items trade-able so that they actually retain their value.

Thank goodness Economists aren't Game Developers then. The idea of using a 'deft touch in game design' apparently didn't occur to you.

I'd say its not the people charging 5k for a 'Gucci' bag that are brilliant Economists but rather excellent showmen who know how to sell cheap products at high prices to unbelievably stupid people. I know a place near my house that charges clients 4 thousand dollars to 'cleanse their soul and renew their Chi'. All these businesses are doing is preying on gullible or vain idiots.

There are a number of gil sinks in game right now, and we'll be seeing more with the incoming Airships and Chocobos. Consider that right now, Market Wards and bazaar sales take out 5 to 10% of any transaction as is. Darkmatter sales are a pure gil sink and the repair NPC continues to gouge anyone to anti-social to hook up with a crafter.

Really the issue right now are the botters running 8 characters through leves and making about 300k a run (on the higher rank ones anyways). I've picked up a good 3-4 screenshots of Botters doing just that today. That reminds me, I need to go drop some STF reports before I log out for the night. They are starting to inject more money into the economy than the gil sinks were meant to handle. As we get more and more players to move around this money and hoard it, the value of gil will continue to drop, jacking up prices on gear and player services considerably.

Those in on the game won't be hurt to badly, but its new players who will suffer from being out of the loop with a steep curve to climb. (we can at least expect to see with the PS3 and possible XBox360 launch if history continues to repeat itself)

[Azurymber]

now if this was the thread starter it would have alot more support by the people with millions of gil. this is something i would spend millions on myself building up.

what i would not do is spend 10's of millions worth of gil into a chance of getting an item by giving gil away to get a piece of gear that is not vastly superior to anything i have.

btw @ the economist please tell me you didn't really say 3000 million did you?

said 3000 million to make it sound as simple as possible. That's something even non-mathematicians can visualize in their head.

And I suggested the peice of gear -be- the most superior peice in that slot (ex, best DD Helm in game) and SE states that it will remain essentially the best for 2 years. SO for example, a Byakko Haidate or a Peacock Charm if going by FFXI examples.

[Azurymber]

Thank goodness Economists aren't Game Developers then. The idea of using a 'deft touch in game design' apparently didn't occur to you.

I'd say its not the people charging 5k for a 'Gucci' bag that are brilliant Economists but rather excellent showmen who know how to sell cheap products at high prices to unbelievably stupid people. I know a place near my house that charges clients 4 thousand dollars to 'cleanse their soul and renew their Chi'. All these businesses are doing is preying on gullible or vain idiots.

There are a number of gil sinks in game right now, and we'll be seeing more with the incoming Airships and Chocobos. Consider that right now, Market Wards and bazaar sales take out 5 to 10% of any transaction as is. Darkmatter sales are a pure gil sink and the repair NPC continues to gouge anyone to anti-social to hook up with a crafter.

Really the issue right now are the botters running 8 characters through leves and making about 300k a run (on the higher rank ones anyways). I've picked up a good 3-4 screenshots of Botters doing just that today. That reminds me, I need to go drop some STF reports before I log out for the night. They are starting to inject more money into the economy than the gil sinks were meant to handle. As we get more and more players to move around this money and hoard it, the value of gil will continue to drop, jacking up prices on gear and player services considerably.

Those in on the game won't be hurt to badly, but its new players who will suffer from being out of the loop with a steep curve to climb. (we can at least expect to see with the PS3 and possible XBox360 launch if history continues to repeat itself)

you can't say that people are being preyed on or idiots for making certain purchases. Sure marketing plays a big role, but everything comes down to what economists like to call Utility. You can think of utility as happiness points.
If you have $5000 you want to spend it in order to maximize your utility / happiness points.
If spending it on cleansing your soul with chi does that, then the service is legitimate. However you have to look at the opportunity cost of spending the $5000 on a cleansing. For example, maybe if you spent the $5000 on soliciting 'entertainment' instead, you may be happier.

If someone spends 50mil in game, gets an epic helmet that looks cool and is better than any other helmet in the game for a considerable period, and they are happy they got it. Then its beneficial both to the player and to the games economy.

The gil sinks in the game currently are no-where near enough to counteract the gil in existence. The best it is doing is balancing the current amount of gil in the economy.

And its marketing, not sales-people or showmen (IN GENERAL) that determine if a product is a success or not. And that ties directly into neuro-economics. If you know what makes humans happy (btw, scientifically proven that genetically we are interested in relative not absolute gains, meaning we want to have more or better stuff than others) then you can market a product well. A Gucci bag isnt about the bag, its about the status associated with the bag.

edit: Much like the status associated with e-peen gear in game.

[Raze]

I don't want all the RMT having better gear than I do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlA9bNk3b5Q

[Payadopa]

I don't think players should be awarded for being rich. Being rich in itself is enough reward. Unless it's something that doesn't bother the rest of the economy like fashion stuff for player housing or something.

[MrKupo]

Just make us pay 100k gil to fly the airships. Here's my prediction: paying rent for "mog" houses. It'll come, you'll see

[Venat]

Theres no real need for a gil toss. They just need to lower gil rewards for... leves,quests,behest,missons.

They already added adjustments to these yes but we dont have hard enough obtainble items to spend our cash for.

Good way is getting crafters to buy materials and focus on +3 HQ crafting. Make NQ equipment none wanting. Another way for a gil sink is ban rmts. Rmts have control of most of the gil in the world. Removing large amount of rmt would remore like 900 bil gil.

There once was a large server ban on FFXI that removed 200 bil gil from all worlds. Since FFXI gil is harder to obtain its quite alot.

After that all items went lower in price but alot of gil from the servers wasnt in flow anymore. Square Enix should start tracking playes that been playing for more then 20-24hrs in a day for starters and accounts with 3-7 charcters.

Also another good thing is adding Reatainer Tax and once AH is in place start taxing items being placed within the AH. Something like a 30% gil tax based on the asking price of the item.

They Should Remove some... Market Locations within all citys and replace them with a AH. Mainly away from Leve Shop.

[Holyomen]

Wow Azury you really made a whole thread off my comment.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post305899

Anyways, there will be a gil sink.
Chocobo rentals, airship tickets, and right now more people are actually using the NPC repair.

[Azurymber]

I think a lot of people are failing to connect the dots here.

This is nothing new.

FFXI had HNM shells selling HNM drops for large amounts of gil. Those who didn't want to do HMNs but wanted a ridill could farm 20mil and purchase one.

FFXI proves people would be willing to pay the gil.
All this does it take out the middle man, instead of paying an HNM shell to farm you a really rare drop, you offer to use your gil to win a raid (which can get them other items).

The raid can still be done without gil, so endgame shells can still raid for the item.
Those who are rich can spend some of the gil they have to get the item faster so they don't have to waste time raiding
People who want the item but think 10 ppl will get it before them can farm or craft or do some kind of economic activity to make gil and then spend that to get a -chance- at the item.

So -everyone- wins. If you're a raider you have a chance, if you have lots of gil you have a chance, if you don't get to play often but can save up a lot you have a chance.
The economy wins because people create more economic activity to get the gil to have a chance.
And the economy wins because gil is drained from the game.

once more
-PEOPLE WERE WILLING TO PAY FOR ELITE GEAR IN FFXI-
so why wouldn't they be here?