A serious discussion about abridging the story quest 1-50 (discouraging new players)

[Atrayl]

If the MSQ was not required to do dungeons and raids, and was not required to access the expansion, would you quit the game? If you didn't play the game, and someone told you that the story content was there, but optional, would you decide not to play the game because of that?

I highly doubt the honest answer to either of these questions is "yes."

And yet, the opposite is not true. There are many people who will quit the game out of frustration stemming from the MSQ grind. There are many people who will dismiss the game after being told they will need to do 30+ hours of mostly fetch quests before they get to start the 20+ hours of mostly fetch quests in the expansion before they get to do end game content.

What is the benefit of forcing everyone to do the main story quests? It certainly doesn't make more people understand the world and the story. I skip everything and I honestly have no idea who any of the characters are outside of their appearance. I don't know why we're going to Ishgard. I don't care. Forcing me to do tedious fetch quests will not make me understand or care about the story that I don't want to experience in the first place.

What's the point? How will it hurt you, if you enjoy the story, for it to be made optional?

[Tuathaa]

If the MSQ was not required to do dungeons and raids, and was not required to access the expansion

I hate to say because I know I am going to get flamed but that attitude would only help to increase subs and attract more people away from other mmo's

[RichardButte]

What's the point? How will it hurt you, if you enjoy the story, for it to be made optional?

The only hurt may be butthurt from lore snobs, but I see 0 actual harm in it.

This is why FFXIV could benefit immensely from a "When last we left the warrior of light..." kind of recap every so often.

[KisaiTenshi]

If the MSQ was not required to do dungeons and raids, and was not required to access the expansion, would you quit the game? If you didn't play the game, and someone told you that the story content was there, but optional, would you decide not to play the game because of that?

I highly doubt the honest answer to either of these questions is "yes."

If the story content is optional, then people wouldn't play it for more than a few hours. They would play it just long enough to get to the logical end of killing the hardest monster... forget about the dungeons and raids.

Part of the game's design is that the entire point of doing the dungeons in the first place is that something in the storyline requires it. If you skipped everything, that is your loss. The storyline content has to be weaved in with gatekeeping the content to keep people from just grinding in one place.

If you notice, the average dungeon only needs to be run 3 times to level out of it so you can play the next one. Once you unlock everything, you can play any other job/class and not have to unlock them again. IN OTHER GAMES YOU HAVE TO CREATE A NEW CHARACTER AND UNLOCK ALL THAT STUFF AGAIN. So instead of complaining that you have to unlock this stuff at all, look at how the armory system removes the need to do all the main storyline 12 times.

But again, in some other games, the ability to actually play all the dungeons is available at level 1, but people just grind on the one dungeon that is the most experience efficient and ignore everything else. And for what? Get to the maximum level and then ... grind a new character?

In other games player typically won't do content that isn't required. Such is the case with Crystal Tower and The Binding Coil of Bahamut, and the Extreme Primals. In FFXIV this content is "hard" content. The fact that DPS have such long queues for any dungeon is indicative how much content players are NOT participating in. The fact that it can take 2 hours to get a DF PUG for these hard parts of the game tells me that you're barking up the wrong tree, and making the storyline optional would just have people do the dungeon content once to clear it and then never again unless they want the full gear collection from that dungeon or are trying to do the relic weapon quests.

[Atrayl]

You didn't answer the question.

The storyline content has to be weaved in with gatekeeping the content to keep people from just grinding in one place.

Why does if "have" to do this?

[RichardButte]

All I can hear in this thread is: "Mom! More cheesy-poofs!"

Actually, the oily lore nerds crying about people not "earning it" by enduring the same amount of boredom they have are far more likely to fall in the "Mom! More cheesy-poofs!" category.

It's the people who have lives and jobs who want to spend their precious few entertainment hours, you know, actually being entertained.

The MSQ storyline at 50 contains some 350+ quest steps. Most of those are running around, doing stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the main storyline.

Remember, "tedious" ≠ "challenging. Enduring boredom is not some kind of bizarre test of fortitude.

If the story content is optional, then people wouldn't play it for more than a few hours. They would play it just long enough to get to the logical end of killing the hardest monster... forget about the dungeons and raids.

You do know that the story ends long before people stop raiding, right?

Conquering the hardest raid content is the carrot in the majority of MMO on the market, including this one.

When it comes to potential new players being turned off by all the story, I'd say it's not always a bad thing.

Given that SE is a business and businesses need to make money, yes, actually, it IS a bad thing.

And we're not talking about completely overhauling the entire game, here. We're talking about altering content that was designed to be playtime-padding filler so it doesn't serve as a barrier to entry so boring that players quit in the middle of it.

If SE is wondering at the number of people who bought HW then never even actually progressed into HW content, I suspect THIS is why.

[KisaiTenshi]

You do know that the story ends long before people stop raiding, right?

Conquering the hardest raid content is the carrot in the majority of MMO on the market, including this one.

And if you don't play the story, you wouldn't even know it was there! The raids are not the be-all-end-all to this game. There are plenty of people who don't like it.

As I said. This is a Final Fantasy game, the story is integral. People play this game because they want a month-long ride through the story. Are the side-quests tedious? No not really. They exist entirely for gaining experience so you don't have to grind in one spot just to get to the next level like other boring-as-hell MMORPG's. When I tried Aion and Tera... all I can say is "What storyline? What's a raid?" It seemed like the entire purpose of the game was to pay into the cash shop.

A proper RPG game is story driven. Stuff happens, you do stuff to resolve what happens. Is that hard? The optional sidequesting is optional. There is no "filler". Some of the content introduced between patches are designed as time sinks (eg the relic quests), or gilsinks (crafting furniture for housing.)

As I've said, and many others have said, you are playing the wrong game. You are not entitled to have the end of the game handed to you by buying the next chapter. In other MMORPG's that have been out for YEARS, they retool the storyline primarily because future content needs to be retconned because each chapter or so has a different lead producer who doesn't care about the lore as much as the last guy. Now take a look at V1 and V2 of the game. Aren't you glad you didn't have to play all of V1 to play V2? There are a bunch of us who did play V1 who would never want to play V1 again except for the storyline.

[3Jane]

And if you don't play the story, you wouldn't even know it was there! The raids are not the be-all-end-all to this game. There are plenty of people who don't like it.

As I said. This is a Final Fantasy game, the story is integral. People play this game because they want a month-long ride through the story. Are the side-quests tedious? No not really. They exist entirely for gaining experience so you don't have to grind in one spot just to get to the next level like other boring-as-hell MMORPG's. When I tried Aion and Tera... all I can say is "What storyline? What's a raid?" It seemed like the entire purpose of the game was to pay into the cash shop.

As I've said, and many others have said, you are playing the wrong game..etc

Nicely put

[Madjames]

Nicely put

I would like to know how she knows that every person playing this game does so because they want a month-long ride through the story.

This is a Final Fantasy game. This is also an MMORPG that is, by design meant for plenty of different players with different goals. This game never has nor never will be JUST for the story huggers. There is also no right or wrong way to play as it has been designed for story huggers, hardcore raiders, crafters, and gatherers such as myself.

You can tell me there are plenty of people who do not like raiding. I can counter that by saying that there are also plenty of people such as myself who could give two craps about the story and would rather make their own characters story through RP and do activities with their friends in dungeons, raids, and RP.

If all you want is story, then it is YOU KisaiTenshi who is playing the wrong game in my opinion. I suggest trying FF7 or FF6 if you care about the story and nothing else.

In my view, my characters story, his life, is made through his daily activities and actions that he himself decides, not what SE or anyone else says. What kills this story the most is that everyone is a special snowflake, and that to me ruins immersion more them making your own story as you go along.

[KisaiTenshi]

I would like to know how she knows that every person playing this game does so because they want a month-long ride through the story.

This is a Final Fantasy game. This is also an MMORPG that is, by design meant for plenty of different players with different goals. This game never has nor never will be JUST for the story huggers. There is also no right or wrong way to play as it has been designed for story huggers, hardcore raiders, crafters, and gatherers such as myself.

You can tell me there are plenty of people who do not like raiding. I can counter that by saying that there are also plenty of people such as myself who could give two craps about the story and would rather make their own characters story through RP and do activities with their friends in dungeons, raids, and RP.

If all you want is story, then it is YOU KisaiTenshi who is playing the wrong game in my opinion. I suggest trying FF7 or FF6 if you care about the story and nothing else.

In my view, my characters story, his life, is made through his daily activities and actions that he himself decides, not what SE or anyone else says. What kills this story the most is that everyone is a special snowflake, and that to me ruins immersion more them making your own story as you go along.

Nay, I'm playing the right game because it has a story, and nearly every character has a meaningful presence, and every job has it's own story. The OP said they just skipped absolutely everything the NPC's said and cutscenes and didn't care one bit for the story. That's why they are playing the wrong game.

IMO, anyone who comes into FFXIV, skips all the storyline bits, and then complains when there is more story, is playing the wrong game. It's like having a militant vegan at a BBQ. All they complain about is how people are depraved for eating meat instead of just socializing like a normal person.