o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Wynn]

Lol please no! You remember what happened last time with Goldsmith?

Players: GOLDSMITH RECIPE MAKES NO SENSE! R44 TO MAKE R32 SILVER NEEDLE! TOO HARDZ!
Tanaka: Um sure, let's nerf R32 Silver Needle recipe and make Goldsmiths grind on something excruciatingly more time consuming to even get a hold of the material needed: Electrum Ring and Silver Chakram.

Silver Needle: http://ffxiv.yg.com/recipe/silver-needle?id=1745 - Smallest recipe tree ever~

Silver Chakram: http://ffxiv.yg.com/recipe/silver-chakram?id=2679 - Not so good now eh guys?

Exactly this. And this is what is going to happen for certain crafts with part recipes removed from the game.

[Sorel]

Exactly this. And this is what is going to happen for certain crafts with part recipes removed from the game.

Is maintaining the current status quo for grind-crafting really SO important that recipes must remain of such complexity that it literally takes two-and-a-half hours to craft 4 [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item]??

Is maintaining the the current status quo SO important that grind-crafters should remain disconnected from the Eorzean economy and continue to make items that can only be sold to NPC vendors??

[Wynn]

Is maintaining the current status quo for grind-crafting really SO important that recipes must remain of such complexity that it literally takes two-and-a-half hours to craft 4 [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item]??

Is maintaining the the current status quo SO important that grind-crafters should remain disconnected from the Eorzean economy and continue to make items that can only be sold to NPC vendors??

Where do you think all your finished items are going to end up? Sold in the ward? LOL

Parts can and should be condensed and simplified. They just shouldn't be scrapped. Crafters need something to get them from point A to point B. This is hardly a complex concept and I am really having a hard time understanding why people are not grasping the problem here.

[Sorel]

Where do you think all your finished items are going to end up? Sold in the ward? LOL

I'll have you know that ALL of my finished goods (mostly axes and hammers) sell very well in Limsa Lominsa's Market Wards.

There is more demand for finished goods than for parts, but grind-crafters are so dependent on parts as a crutch for their grinding, they leave the demand for equipment that players can actually use unfulfilled.

Now I'm happy to profit from others inability to see past their own SP/hour. But I also recognize that the larger problem of not enough finished goods in the economy and grind-crafters' self-disconnection from that economy needs to be fixed. If that means kicking the crutch out from under grind-crafters ... so mote it be.

[Wynn]

I'll have you know that ALL of my finished goods (mostly axes and hammers) sell very well in Limsa Lominsa's Market Wards.

There is more demand for finished goods than for parts, but grind-crafters are so dependent on parts as a crutch for their grinding, they leave the demand for equipment that players can actually use unfulfilled.

Now I'm happy to profit from others inability to see past their own SP/hour. But I also recognize that the larger problem of not enough finished goods in the economy and grind-crafters' self-disconnection from that economy needs to be fixed. If that means kicking the crutch out from under grind-crafters ... so mote it be.

What I don't think you are understanding is this: Parts being removed means crafters will grind on finished items. This will lead to an excess of finished items. The wards will be flooded, nothing will sell. And all those finished items will be more than anyone can carry since it will eat up all their inventory space so instead of vendoring parts from grinding, they will be vendoring their finished items.

It sounds like you mostly do your leveling in crafts from leves. Is that a correct assumption?

[Sorel]

What I don't think you are understanding is this: Parts being removed means crafters will grind on finished items. This will lead to an excess of finished items. The wards will be flooded, nothing will sell. And all those finished items will be more than anyone can carry since it will eat up all their inventory space so instead of vendoring parts from grinding, they will be vendoring their finished items.

It sounds like you mostly do your leveling in crafts from leves. Is that a correct assumption?

This is were I do not follow your logic. Why would nothing sell?? The markets are flooded with crystal sellers, and they manage to sell their goods.

And you are correct, I mostly level my crafts from leves. I on occassion (not to any large extent) grind nuggets and ingots because they sell very well on the markets, and I always have use for the excess.

[darkstarpoet1]

This is were I do not follow your logic. Why would nothing sell?? The markets are flooded with crystal sellers, and they manage to sell their goods.

And you are correct, I mostly level my crafts from leves. I on occassion (not to any large extent) grind nuggets and ingots because they sell very well on the markets, and I always have use for the excess.

here is simple logic that should be easy to follow.

example1: go buy 100 earth shards and then go do 8 synths of iron squares.... you are out of shards and must go get more.

example2: go buy the r22 goldsmith hammer and do 8 synths doing anything..... you still have your hammer and do not need another. you will use that hammer for quite a few levels before the need to upgrade again. when you do upgrade that used hammer gets repaired and goes back into the system.

consumables will always sell better than non consumables. the reason being is, in basic math, if you have 500 people on your server then you will only have the need for 500 goldsmith hammers throughout its life. in that same time you will need hundreds of thousands of shards. if you use anything and when you are done you need more of them then there will always be a market. i even used 500 hammers knowing that when one finishes the craft they will sell their hammer off more than likely so you may have 4-5 people using the same hammer.

[TheVedis]

This is were I do not follow your logic. Why would nothing sell?? The markets are flooded with crystal sellers, and they manage to sell their goods.

And you are correct, I mostly level my crafts from leves. I on occassion (not to any large extent) grind nuggets and ingots because they sell very well on the markets, and I always have use for the excess.

wow, you dont get it?
when EVERYONE is grinding on nothing but finished products
do you really think they will all sell like hotcakes?

no, the prices will go into the dirt, people will buy them yes, but only a handful, if even that of the thousands being made to level on will sell. and they will sell so cheap that youd probly get more money vendoring them at that point cuz everyone else wants to sell theirs too

[Esk]

Is maintaining the current status quo for grind-crafting really SO important that recipes must remain of such complexity that it literally takes two-and-a-half hours to craft 4 [item=4040101]Bronze Labrys[/item]??

Is maintaining the the current status quo SO important that grind-crafters should remain disconnected from the Eorzean economy and continue to make items that can only be sold to NPC vendors??

Very Very few people are saying anything like that other then those who are pro the changes.

Almost everyone seem to support of 3/5 changes, but a lot want a compromise between:
- The complete removal of components to a slimming down
- The almost complete removal of guilds to some other use for them.
(i'm not sure what people want to see happen to guilds, but support/treaties needs to be changed from a necessity to an extra, I'm still personally in favour of it being a boots on HQ items only)

An again unless they address the issues around the slow crafting system, SP, recipe book and lack of need to sell on components to players (as we have to many, or all need more end game use balanced against the cost/rarity of them)
Nothing much will actually change other then lots of finished items getting sold to NPC's as the market will likly be flooded or gear will be so cheep that only +1/2/3's are worth buying.

But still people will probably avoiding crafts are tedious to level up and now with even less options of items to level on.