3.0 Adjustments to Existing Actions for WHM & SCH

[Verdan]

Also that 20% would be much better suited to a black mage or the other healer. If alone, sure, but it wouldn't be optimal to throw a card that could mean so much to another class on yourself when you already have lower costs.

[Tint]

shroud restores 1000 mana, i tested this, it doesn't matter how much max mana you have or what gear you are wearing. if it doesn't scale with the level (does it? i don't know) it is still 1000 mana regen at lvl 60. but you will have more than twice the mana from lvl 50. around 15k i think. now you have around 5k mana, shroud restores 1k every 120 seconds, that's around 20%. that new skill restores 10% every 90 seconds. so from 15k mana it's 1500 mana...

so... in six minutes you will restore 60% of your max mana at lvl 50 (3x shroud = 3000 mana from 5000 max) and at lvl 60 it is also 60% (3x shroud + 4x that new skill (waht was the name? xD) = 9000 mana from 15000 max)

[Cynfael]

shroud restores 1000 mana, i tested this, it doesn't matter how much max mana you have or what gear you are wearing. if it doesn't scale with the level (does it? i don't know) it is still 1000 mana regen at lvl 60. but you will have more than twice the mana from lvl 50. around 15k i think. now you have around 5k mana, shroud restores 1k every 120 seconds, that's around 20%. that new skill restores 10% every 90 seconds. so from 15k mana it's 1500 mana...

so... in six minutes you will restore 60% of your max mana at lvl 50 (3x shroud = 3000 mana from 5000 max) and at lvl 60 it is also 60% (3x shroud + 4x that new skill (waht was the name? xD) = 9000 mana from 15000 max)

Shroud does scale with level; a few helpful posters around here tested it. We'll have to see if the formula stays the same through lvl 60.

The supplementary MP restoration from Assize should certainly be helpful in any case, as should the increased natural regen rate from higher PIE.

[firstsin]

Shroud does scale with level; a few helpful posters around here tested it. We'll have to see if the formula stays the same through lvl 60.

The supplementary MP restoration from Assize should certainly be helpful in any case, as should the increased natural regen rate from higher PIE.

Shroud of Saints regenerates a maximum of 1060 MP. Your natural MP regeneration which ticks every 3 seconds is based off your max MP pool which comes to approximately 2% of your max MP.

Regen does not scale with PIE. The potency of Regen increases with Mind. Try casting Regen when you have Divine Seal up and you'll see your Regen is 40% stronger.

[Raminax]

Shroud of Saints regenerates a maximum of 1060 MP. Your natural MP regeneration which ticks every 3 seconds is based off your max MP pool which comes to approximately 2% of your max MP.

Regen does not scale with PIE. The potency of Regen increases with Mind. Try casting Regen when you have Divine Seal up and you'll see your Regen is 40% stronger.

I think Cynfael was referring to natural MP regeneration (the 2% of max MP every 3 sec), rather than the actual spell Regen.

[KisaiTenshi]

Shroud of Saints regenerates a maximum of 1060 MP. Your natural MP regeneration which ticks every 3 seconds is based off your max MP pool which comes to approximately 2% of your max MP.

Regen does not scale with PIE. The potency of Regen increases with Mind. Try casting Regen when you have Divine Seal up and you'll see your Regen is 40% stronger.

Not to re-open this debate, but I spent a friggen week figuring out the near-exact formula to it through levelsync's and even creating new characters of different races.

MP is calculated, half from a "Base" and half from "Base+Bonus points+gear" the Shroud formula is calculated from the base, as is the MP costs for all skills.
You can get a gross approximation by removing your gear, use the total MP (minus MP added from bonus points) *.0825 * Potency as a %, and then multiply that by 5 ticks.

The reason I say near-exact, is because there are points added for race and points added for job that still affect that ungeared MP number.

So yes it scales with PIE, but that's the PIE added from leveling, not gear or bonus points.

As for Natural MP generation it's 2% per tick, and it ticks 3 times faster when not in combat. Shroud does not tick any faster in or out of combat.

[Cynfael]

Shroud of Saints regenerates a maximum of 1060 MP. Your natural MP regeneration which ticks every 3 seconds is based off your max MP pool which comes to approximately 2% of your max MP.

Regen does not scale with PIE. The potency of Regen increases with Mind. Try casting Regen when you have Divine Seal up and you'll see your Regen is 40% stronger.

That's definitely a unique way to have read my post.

- Shroud does scale according to character level. Added PIE no, character level yes.

- Raminax read correctly. "Increased natural regen rate from higher PIE" was not any kind of reference to the spell named Regen.

[Cynfael]

So yes it scales with PIE, but that's the PIE added from leveling, not gear or bonus points.

Out of curiosity, were you able to determine if the "innate" PIE from leveling is what makes the difference in Shroud's character level scaling? I suppose the difference is academic since you can't level up without the automatic stat gains that come with it, but just wondering.

[KisaiTenshi]

Out of curiosity, were you able to determine if the "innate" PIE from leveling is what makes the difference in Shroud's character level scaling? I suppose the difference is academic since you can't level up without the automatic stat gains that come with it, but just wondering.

I'm pretty sure it's the innate PIE from leveling. When I tested everything I could think of, the only thing that had a direct bearing was levelsync and the potency change. Like it's just as valid to say that "Level 50 gives you a base 202 pie from which it calculates 212MP/tick under shroud" as it is to say "Level 50 gives you 212MP/tick under Shroud"

The thing is the Potency actually does exist, so that's what tells me it's based on the innate PIE and not just an arbitrary value per level.

I saved my original worksheet so I could compare with the later work I did. Originally I determined that SoS seems to be 0.21 at Potency 60 or 0.27 or so at potency 80 before separating out the base and bonus points. Once I removed the bonus points from the equation, SoS/UngearedMP = Potency 60 always 0.25 and Potency 80 was always 0.33.

So assuming there are no additional potency increases to Shroud, Shroud will recover 33% of the base MP for that level. 1060MP recovered from a "Ungeared MP" of 3210 (race difference will be +/- 7.5, so this might really be a base MP of 3195, anyway...) Or 6.6% per tick (212MP) at level 50.

EDIT
So far it's still consistent with Level 51
240MP/tick for a total of 1200 is still 33% of base MP of 3598 (for me)

Now... the other thing that is consistent, there is a large increase in MP at level 51 just like there was at 41, 31, 21 and 11. Previously, using a chart I determined that those are the points where the scale changes. eg where 1 PIE = X MP value changed. As for what the scale is, I lost interest in figuring that out since the work might be useless if HW retools things.

[Atlantasia]

I used Presence of Mind on big pulls and to get DPS up when they died and SC was on cool down... now its barely worth it to use (Tried it, slow as molasses in January). Why couldn't they have fixed it by allowing the casting time of all skills to be cut in half with Presence of Mind instead of increasing Spell Speed? That would have worked around the boost to the Spell Speed stat on HoTs and DoTs, keeping the skill in tact and in use for heals and a bit of DPS if need be without overpowering it... instead its neutered to stupid levels.

And the loss of Protect and Stone Skin being unique is a huge hit, that's part of the reason WHM was so good, they were the class you wanted in your group for buffs. Now any PLD, SCH, and AST can cast Protect and SS, why should I even bother with anything, but SS II and only because it saves a tiny bit of time. And losing SS's 18% to a 10% version that casts faster is just a slap in the face.