[Massive spoilers - do not read until storyline complete] I hate the ending

[Cilia]

If I weren't a healer? Well, I am an alchemist, so I might have had a remedy on me for the poison. Considering the speed it worked at and Nanamo's dying body language, I'm fairly certain it was a concentrated paralysis poison, so some muscle relaxers or something to hastily reduce the swelling could work in theory.

Moot point though. The chances of having an effective antidote are slim to none.

[Kekeri]

As far as the "rampage would look bad"... that already happens, it's just not you doing it. Pap and Yda literally start killing Blades, etc. to help you escape. Thancred has already killed people before you see him.

The "looking bad" is misleading here, if you're actually saying any of the people at that matter, because Ilberd admits he killed the Sultana out loud while there. If any of those people had opinions that matter...

If the argument is that those people didn't *actually* die, then there's no reason a monk or whatever couldn't have just beaten up people without killing them. If the argument is "but your monk doesn't have weapons" - lvl 50 monks lead off with a kick anyway, and we still have our feet.

As to the not having an actual cure to the poison, you could do what you normally do if stuck in dungeon without a cure (see: Brayflox with a Scholar, since they don't have leeches at that lvl cap). You just keep curing to keep them alive till the problem can be fixed.

[Cilia]

We aren't going on a rampage during the escape, just trying to... escape. Maybe some of the other Scions kill a few guards, but besides that there's no blood on any of the heroes' hands. Raubahn kills Teledji, but well...

(And no, I don't think it's OK for them to wave off killing people, but I suspect they knew what would happen and were perfectly OK with dirtying their hands.)

Nope, nobody's opinion in the room really matters. With the Sultana out of the picture and Teledji's mouthy ass dead, Lolorito is the richest, and by extension most powerful, man in Ul'dah (he always has been, he's just exercising that power now). Assuming there's a trial with the normal Western judge and jury, he could easily pay them off to get an outcome favorable to him.

Doesn't matter if you lead off with your feet, the numbers were way too high to fight and most attacks are still fist weapon-enhanced punches. Go punch someone wearing chain mail, tell me who gets hurt more.

Even if you want to go in as a healer class and keep Nanamo alive through magic, you can't. Magic classes use their weapons to channel aether for spells... and we didn't have them!!!

Even if you want to cheat, they won't letcha!

[Belhi]

This has been argued a lot but Ill throw in one more time.

To all those who though they should have fought back, lets say you did just that. Lets say you thrashed the guards sent to arrest you. What then? What are you going to do will Teleji? What are you going to do with the Handmaiden who was there (and to the best of the players knowledge was innocent). Even if you take Teleji and force him to tell the truth, where exactly are you going to take him. You'll almost certainly have to get past the Sultansworn who will want you to hand Teleji over to them regardless of if they are corrupt or not. You know, cause of the Law.

But lets say you take out Teleji and Lolorito (who you have no idea where he is and have limited opportunity to capture). What then? You've pretty much just removed most of Ul'dah's leadership, particularly now that Nanamo is dead. While you may have reputation on your side the seizing of power is under very dubious circumstances since you've completely ignored the rule of law. You also cant be sure you've gotten all of the monetarists who now would have a field day spreading rumors and sowing decent. Even if Raubahn takes power its going to look like he held a coup.

Regardless, the Brass blades would effectively be disbanded as would the Crystal Braves meaning the policing bodies in Ul'dah would be greatly reduced. The Immortal Flames could take over but that means spreading themselves more thinly including drawing forces away from the Ala Mhigan Frontline at a time when the Empire is likely mobilising for future incursions.

There is no way that the WoL could have used force here which wouldn't end up in a crippled Ul'dah. The WoL is going to NEED to have the citizens of Ul'dah firmly behind them or at least Raubahn before overthrowing the Monetarists or Ul'dah will decend into anarchy and the Eorzean Alliance would be in a shambles.

[Cilia]

Not only that, but killing / capturing Lolorito would deprive the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves of their meal ticket, so they'd still be out for your head.

EDIT FOR BELOW (Boo post limit!)

Certainly true but with Lolorito dead or captured, the Braves and Blades' lives just got a lot harder. As the single most affluent man in Ul'dah Lolorito can pay salaries higher than anyone else; he's their golden goose, so to speak. They'd be on you like white on rice, at least for a few weeks.

[Fenral]

Not only that, but killing / capturing Lolorito would deprive the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves of their meal ticket, so they'd still be out for your head.

Unless 3.X shows us another side of him, I actually doubt Lolorito has anyone truly loyal to him. It's the inherent problem in where he gets his "power" from, after all. Whoever he's bought out will simply move on to the next-best payroll. You can't buy the kind of loyalty that actively seeks revenge.

[Belhi]

Unless 3.X shows us another side of him, I actually doubt Lolorito has anyone truly loyal to him. It's the inherent problem in where he gets his "power" from, after all. Whoever he's bought out will simply move on to the next-best payroll. You can't buy the kind of loyalty that actively seeks revenge.

Lolorito might not, but Teleji? Do remember that in 2.2 he seemed like a stand up guy to us. That's his public face. Someone who seems to care for the welfare of the refugees but is looking for an effective means of solving the problem productively, which is a very Ul'dahian way of doing things. Likewise, while Lolorito isn't likely to be loved, his is almost certainly respected and more important, there is likely a lot of individuals heavily invested in him. Lets add to the fact that the Crystal Braves have been earning Browny points in Ul'dah by protecting the peace and looking after the commonfolk during the upheavals.

And as far as public opinion goes, they have the advantage. We could force Teleji to 'own up' but then we would need to hand him over to face justice under the law. Worse, the Handmaiden, who most would assume is devoted to Nanamo, could provide a testimony that made it look like we actually did it and tried forcing Teleji to take the fall for it, and there would be nothing we could do to counter it before its too late since we had no idea of the Handmaiden's loyalties. Our characters still don't.

[Fenral]

lots of words

woah there full stop

We were talking in hypotheticals, and I replied with "hired thugs probably don't give a damn about the guy paying them." Which is more or less the usual. Nobody said anything about the court of public opinion. I was just being snarky out of pre-EA boredom.

My canned response to 2.5's story developments (any of them) has always been, "no way in hell am I happy about any of this, but if it actually goes somewhere I'll consider forgiving you."

[Kaiser-Ace]

As long as I get to kill Ilberd and ruin Lolorito in 3.x I dont care how it went down.
I never liked Ilberd from the moment I met him and I've been gunning for Lolorito since my first run in with the brass blades outside the Sil'dih ruins.

[pandabearcat]

Yea I'm just guessing the storyline sucks right here to make us buy heavensward for that sweet sweet lalafel murdering.

Sign me up!