Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[Pnight]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone else think that THM > WHM and CON > BLM. Pre-1.18 when curaga and other raises were added this is where i thought they were going. THM deals with life and death vs CON deals with the elementals. Maybe its just me but the story lines seem to point it this way but now they have changed that idea with the addition of curaga and raise 2/3.

On Topic: I hope they change the job system to be somewhat like tactics, keeping the class system to level so you can unlike all the endgame jobs separately. LNC levels to 50 for DRG but to 75 and GLA to 50 to unlock Dragon Knight. The options could be enormous while keeping the basic solo/ small group playability of the class system.

[Starflare]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone else think that THM > WHM and CON > BLM. Pre-1.18 when curaga and other raises were added this is where i thought they were going. THM deals with life and death vs CON deals with the elementals. Maybe its just me but the story lines seem to point it this way but now they have changed that idea with the addition of curaga and raise 2/3.

I also think that's the way it's going to work out. They will ask for community input and after it's all said and done; they will make THM the new dedicated healer and CON the nuker. It only makes sense if you go based of the lore.

Shuffling around abilities is a lot easier and faster than changing/rewriting lore to have it make sense.

- Kurokikaze

[Brightshadow]

I had a idea a while ago of how I think SE can keep the armoury system, but remake it with the classical jobs. here the link.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Armoury-system

[Khal_Drogo]

PROPOSAL

I think the job system needs a COMPLETE overhaul. Many people quit FFXI thinking FFXIV would bring something new to the table, other than mind-numbing animation spam, button-smashing, and the abomination that is the job system. The decision to re-examine job names was a first step in the right direction towards a newer and better FFXIV, and would have helped bring the game that much closer to what it should have been from the beginning. However, while feelings of nostalgia may have been a wonderful gift to the many Final Fantasy fans out there, it will never compensate for the horrific system that is in place now.

EXAMPLE

FFXI only allowed players to combine 2 jobs’ abilities, traits, and attributes; and only about half of the secondary job’s benefits were awarded by the combination. This meant players had to thoroughly evaluate each potential sub job for their main job, and decide what aspects of those choices were beneficial to them. This helped promote character and job uniqueness. For example, a DRG/DNC or DRG/WHM was an excellent choice for soloing, but less suitable for damage dealing. While on the other hand, a DRG/WAR or DRG/THF would be a prime combination for party play where healers are readily available, and damage is the only focus. In FFXIV, whether you’re a Conjurer, a Thaumertauge, an Archer, a Pugilist, or whatever else, you almost always have cure spells assigned, abilities/actions/traits from other classes, and perhaps even some “TP-moves” equipped: like "Second Wind," "Comrade in Arms," or "Trammel" for an easy 500tp weapon skill. This means everyone is spamming the same basic attacks, weapon skills, cures, and abilities as any other job, leaving only the "weapon in hand," and "job title" to distinguish what "class" someone is actually using. Because of the mass combination of class abilities, actions, and traits, no class is very unique -at all. Everyone capitalizes on various aspects of each job, and turns every class into a carbon-copy of the other.



In fact, most players will be hard-pressed to find themselves able to solo *without doing it. The game practically forces you to level every job, throwing uniqueness completely out the window. In FFXI, there were clear, distinct roles designated to each job. Red mage had magic, and great spells, so it debuffed mobs, and cured and buffed pt members (although, useful attk magic would have been nice, which, luckily THM brings to the table); Thief had high evasion and good hate-control abilities (Trick Attack, Collaborate, etc.), so it pulled monsters, and assisted tanks with maintaining hate, and so on. Players COULD make odd combinations of jobs if they wished, but most the time it rendered the jobs "gimp" and then they had trouble finding parties. XIV tried to remedy this issue, but took it to the extreme, and ended up causing even more problems. Now, any job can be effective in any way: as a tank, as a healer, as a damage dealer, as a puller, or anything they want to be. However, now they're forced to level, virtually, EVERY job to be good, instead of just the "right" job. Because of the current system, every job can play any role in any party. Nothing is unique about them but the "weapon they carry" and the "title they possess."

[Forerunner]

I've been putting a lot of thought into this lately. We already know from developer letters and posts that a Job system is coming which will feature specialized combat roles. Once this system is implemented, there will be little to no reason to ever use a class role. Why would I play Gladiator when Paladin is better equipped to tank? Why even have the option to be a Marauder if I am fully expected to use Warrior in any and every combat situation? In short, the class system will go unused once we have access to jobs. Why should we bother keeping the class system in-game if it unnecessarily complicates things?

What I propose is the following:

A) All current classes are renamed as follows:

Gladiator → Paladin
Marauder → Warrior
Pugilist → Monk
Lancer → Dragoon
Thaumaturge → Black Mage
Conjurer → White Mage
Archer → Ranger

B) Class abilities are re-assigned as necessary. E.g. Black Mage would receive the nukes/debuffs from Conjurer, but the buff/heal spells would go to White Mage.

C) All references in-game to the previous classes are simply edited and updated. Guild names are updated, NPC references to classes are edited, etc.

I firmly believe that having a job-only system would be an improvement in every which way over the current plan of classes co-existing alongside jobs. For one, traditional job names are part of long-established "Final Fantasy" lore. This will make the game feel more familiar to all the FF fans out there. Secondly, I cannot fathom a single situation where we would want to be entering combat as a class rather than as a job.

The way I see it, the class system is a relic from the old-development direction of this game, and we no longer need it. I cannot see any cons to removing the class system. Cross-job abilities would need to be examined, but surely the cost of doing so is greatly compensated by the benefit of an elegant and simple system which, due to experience with FFXI, we KNOW will work.

I think this myself, and the reason is this (Most likely):

EVERYONE THATS CAPPED @R50 ON ANY/EVERY CLASS WILL Q_Q AND RAGEMOAR/RAGEQUIT.

I pray every day for XI-2 to be announced. FFXI job/subjob system, with XIV's on-the-fly changability. Just keep abyssea the hell away from it.

[Grimoire]

They would have to throw away all the class quests if they renamed the classes. A PLD would never run around and cheer for the crowd. If they just leave the classes alone and add jobs, they have the option of adding multiple jobs per class later with expansions. In the world of FF, there have been classes that use the same weapons after all. Gladiator is a master of blades right? Why not give them pld AND sam. I really think con should get whm AND blm. Perhaps thm could have something like rdm and blu? (even though they use swords. idk.) Of course.. you'd have to switch between jobs... I haven't read most of this thread honestly. Surely someone has already said this.

[Engineer]

I actually like the idea of having both jobs and classes. jobs are role specializations, and classes are weapon specializations. XIV has something truly unique here, and making it so we only have jobs is kind of a dumb down in my opinion.

Depending on the type of Gladiator you are, it might not be necessary to be a Paladin even in party situations. If I was a Gladiator and was invited to party that already has a Paladin why should I be a Paladin too? In this case I would remain a Gladiator and focus on DD and back up tanking. Same goes for Conjurer, if I'm a White Mage and we invited a conjurer, why should the player be a white mage too? The player should remain a Conjurer and focus on nuking or enfeebling(equiping Thm abilities) and Back up heal..

The marriage of Jobs, and the class system are Genius, it offers flexibility unlike any game especially when more jobs are unlocked per class. Your idea is not good and offers no flexibility.

Another example... a party has two archers, one changes to Bard and focuses on sub DD and Support, while the other stays as Archer and uses cross class abilities that Boosts his attack to focus on DD.

With your idea, there will be no point to have 2 bards, 2 paladins, or 2 white mages in a party so puting together parties would be difficult and would have people waiting. No thanks..

[Rillifane]

Slightly off topic, but does anyone else think that THM > WHM and CON > BLM

It might be more of a case of THM > BLM or WHM and CON > WHM or BLM. With a THM/WHM having different abilities than a CON/WHM and a THM/BLM again having access to different abilities to CON/BLM. And whats with everyone here thinking a job is linked to one class? Wasnt it said on here at one point its linked to one >weapon< not class. If i'm not mistaken you can carry around and swap between mutliple weapons of the same class, so a CON can carry around a staff linked to the BLM job and a wand linked to WHM job if they so chose.

Conjurer → Sage

Fixed.

[Khal_Drogo]

Originally Posted by Engineer

I actually like the idea of having both jobs and classes. jobs are role specializations, and classes are weapon specializations. XIV has something truly unique here, and making it so we only have jobs is kind of a dumb down in my opinion.

I'm not sure if this idea was subtly "embedded" in your statement, but if this is what you meant, then this is an incredible idea: When players have access to jobs, they should not be restricted to certain weapons. The jobs should go back to the way they worked on XI: no interchangeable traits, abilities, or any other such nonsense (because it pretty much takes the fun out of every job) -can you imagine a SAM on XI that had TH2? or a WHM with Convert? (a.k.a. XI the way it is *now, which everyone pretty much agrees is awful); no mp on melee jobs; no ridiculous spamming of worthless low-dmg weapon skills; and for the love of god, no low level fools wearing armor 49 levels above their current one. There is nothing exciting about leveling now because of it. The whole point to leveling is to get stronger and higher, so that you *can equip awesome gear, and perform better. Some stupid a@@ penalty is not going to stop ppl from wearing stuff they can't use well. GET RID OF IT SE, NOW.....PLEASE

[Carzilla]

Damnit For the millionth time Use ffxi's mechanics as a BASE TO BUILD OFF! Everyone keeps bichin "We dont want FF11-2" but that what u hypocrites want.