Why not abolish the Class system entirely in favor of Jobs? [@ Devs]

[Oscillate_Wildly]

I don't want to revisit FFXI, the armoury system allows me to pick the best skills from multiple classes, damn the game's elitist masses. :/
Jobs are not here to replace the armoury system, they're here to give you an alternate way to play. Right now Gladiators are the best choice in some casses for tanks, but a PLD job set, will make PLD better than Glad, offering Gladiators a chance to DD hopefully.

By also offering up skills that are class only (Like Curaga has become) that also gives classes individuality. We already have that with some skills like Speed Surge and Life Surge on Lancer.

Certainly we can mix and match skills, but a Cure from a Pugilist will never be the same as a cure from a Conjurer. Further more, with stats set per class that we're getting, that will be even more true. D:

Trying to restrict the game even more...You're nuts. It's the kind of lazy response I'd expect from someone without an ounce of imagination.

Also, the armoury system is currently tied to weapons. What they could do instead is offer up special kinds of that weapon to make builds more unique.
Enhanced (NOT glowing) swords, with INT traits to make better use of special MP based elemental TP skills. Making the Gladiator a fierce DD. We have some weapons like this in the game as it is, wands are better suited for Nuking it seems with the +% on certain elements.

I'd rather have unique, class based weapons over the complete destruction of the armoury system. D:

[Davorok]

*Warning! The following post contains much Speculation and Assumption:

I think it is important to understand why they are implementing the Job System to better understand how it's (possibly) going to work.

A lot of peeps wanted more defining roles in a party and Class Specific Abilities (restricted) are the only way to achieve this.
They could have just made several of the existing abilities Class Specific Restricted but that would have hurt the solo/casual player tremendously so the only logical choice is to add abilities that are class specific restricted and also make these new abilities party-centric (these abilities are only useful in a party).

For example, Paladin uses abilities that enhance defense and hate control at the cost of damage dealing. Unless you like long drawn out fights (low sp per hr) you would not want to solo as a Paladin. Gladiator is a much better choice.

If the new Jobs come with Party-centric abilities at the cost of Damage Dealing abilities, few people would opt to use them for soloing. The "vanilla" jobs will always be superior for open-world content like timed leves, behest and solo-grinding.

As for Parties, we all seem to be forgetting that Full PT's have 8 players, yet there are only 7 classes/jobs so every pt will have repeat classes in them however, you normally only require 1 tank (paladin), 1 healer (Whm), 1 nuker (Blm), 1 enfeebler (Rdm), 1 buffer (Brd) and 1 DD (Mnk/DRk/Drg). That leaves 2 slots for either repeat jobs or for 2 additional DD Classes or 2 additional Vanilla Classes.

How it's all implemented we will soon find out but my gut feelings and observations are that the Dev Team is trying very hard to expand our choices rather than limit them. Always remember though, It is not SE's responsibility to create classes/jobs that fit our playstyle, it is our choice to play a class/job that fits our playstyle and/or the needs of a PT.

[Khal_Drogo]

Originally posted by Carzilla

Damnit For the millionth time Use ffxi's mechanics as a BASE TO BUILD OFF! Everyone keeps bichin "We dont want FF11-2" but that what u hypocrites want.

I'm certainly no hypocrite. I DO want XI-2. And, actually, regardless of how much you all deny it....that's what this was designed to be. They have the same damn races; they use the same composer for a lot of the music; they have many of the same jobs -just with different names and horrible mechanics; and they HAD the same fan-base 'til they released it prematurely. Thank God they got Yoshi. Maybe it WILL turn into XI-2. Just because it's a "sequel," doesn't mean it has to be a carbon-copy of it's predecessor. Look at FFX-2. Aside from the shitty party line-up, it was a great example of how to make a "sequel." It was very different from FFX, but it was still great. FFXIV is very different from XI, but in all the wrong ways. Get the picture, dude?

[Gennosuke]

Dang, i just wrote up a thread stating pretty much the same thing just a few mins ago haha.

I agree completely with OP. I just hate the idea of keeping classes and think it's completely redundant and really is just a relic of the past they are holding onto.

Bring back the Traditional jobs as they always have been in all FF's and add subjobs onto it to address cross class issue.
It works, its fun.

Im very troubled with this plan, i think it's a wrong decision. It just doesn't feel or sound right and will only cause further complications when it could very simplified and fun.

I hope they take this thread seriously!

[Khal_Drogo]

Originally posted by Gennosuke

Bring back the Traditional jobs as they always have been in all FF's and add subjobs onto it to address cross class issue.

I felt the exact same way as you 'til I read this post:

Originally posted by Engineer

Depending on the type of Gladiator you are, it might not be necessary to be a Paladin even in party situations. If I was a Gladiator and was invited to party that already has a Paladin why should I be a Paladin too? In this case I would remain a Gladiator and focus on DD and back up tanking. Same goes for Conjurer, if I'm a White Mage and we invited a conjurer, why should the player be a white mage too? The player should remain a Conjurer and focus on nuking or enfeebling(equiping Thm abilities) and Back up heal..

In that sense, it would be great, but ONLY under these conditions: Jobs, absolutely, MUST go back to having no weapon restrictions and the sub-job style for class-trait/ability crossovers. The jobs should, also, drastically outperform their class counterparts. That way, if, for example, you have a friend who lvl'd THM turned RDM , but you already have a party with enough healers/debuffers, you don't have to turn them away. They can join the pt as THM, and still be "relatively" effective....a.k.a. contribute significantly, but not so much that they overpower any other jobs -do good dmg, but not as good as the melee/nuker *jobs; cure/enfeeb/buff well, but not as well as the mage *jobs, etc.

[Hawklaser]

I'm not going to pass judgment on the proposed addition of jobs until there is more information, but I do like the armory system as it is. The current classes just need some more specific abilities to help set them apart from each other.

As to the comments regarding the FFXI job/subjob being really flexible, it really wasn't. There is a reason all the melee were /war, /thf, /nin, /sam, and why all the mages were /whm or /blm, and rarely /smn. Outside of soloing, or needing of things like chainspell+stun, very few other setups worked. If the system was truly flexible you would of seen things like blm/war in parties later on. There were very few abilities that transferred over to other jobs well.

[bass9020]

If I wanted to play XI I would play..oh wait I do still play it and I love the job system it has and would not want it anyone other way. I feel for XIV the class/job system should keep going the way it is intended, theres no reason for a main/sub system in XIV its its own game, heck we dont even know how the new system will be and thats what makes me laugh when I see everyone complaining about it..ITS NOT EVEN OUT YET nor do we have any SOLID INFO about it.

why would i want to pay for essentially 2 games that are suppose to be different but would end up being basically the same(yea i know there will be a discount if you play both games but still)

everyone is entitled to there own opinion and I respect that 100% I just dont understand why people want the same exact game with better graphics IMO

[Khal_Drogo]

Hey Bass9020, I know it's pretty dumb to quote yourself, but I'm sure you don't wanna scroll through the entire thread, so let me just show you a little....

Just because it's a "sequel," doesn't mean it has to be a carbon-copy of it's predecessor. Look at FFX-2. Aside from the shitty party line-up, it was a great example of how to make a "sequel." It was very different from FFX, but it was still great. FFXIV is very different from XI, but in all the wrong ways.

FFXIV has way too much in common with XI to not be considered "XI-2." That's what it is, technically; it's just not a well-made "sequel" is all. People don't want the same game with better graphics. They want a "new game" with the same *mechanics. The leveling system in FFX was the absolute best one I've ever seen in rpgs. The sphere-grid was absolutely perfect, but for some reason it was never re-introduced. Why? Because people, like you (no offense), think that ANYTHING linking 2 games together, no matter how trivial, makes it "dull" and "unoriginal." That is far from the truth. FFXIV brought a lot of good to the table, but it failed MISERABLY with the current class system. There needs to be some kind of format similar to XI. FFXI's job system was the "sphere grid" of it's genre, imo.

[Zangetsu]

Oh they released Jobs already? I didn't even see any notes yet on them besides they are coming and a few tidbits of not much information. An opinion of the idea of jobs is fine. When people are bashing it before they even try it and saying how it can do this and can't do that and is only for situation A or B is kinda jumping the gun a bit. Don't ya think?

[Gennosuke]

Hey Bass9020, I know it's pretty dumb to quote yourself, but I'm sure you don't wanna scroll through the entire thread, so let me just show you a little....



FFXIV has way too much in common with XI to not be considered "XI-2." That's what it is, technically; it's just not a well-made "sequel" is all. People don't want the same game with better graphics. They want a "new game" with the same *mechanics. The leveling system in FFX was the absolute best one I've ever seen in rpgs. The sphere-grid was absolutely perfect, but for some reason it was never re-introduced. Why? Because people, like you (no offense), think that ANYTHING linking 2 games together, no matter how trivial, makes it "dull" and "unoriginal." That is far from the truth. FFXIV brought a lot of good to the table, but it failed MISERABLY with the current class system. There needs to be some kind of format similar to XI. FFXI's job system was the "sphere grid" of it's genre, imo.

Well said!

I find it more ironic that people don't criticize the fact that we have identical races of FFXI but then complain about core features which would hold much more value when "copied" across from predecessors. I mean honestly speaking, i was hoping for new races, new looks, even new job system. They ended up replicating the races with different names which is rather sad and unoriginal since it's not XI-2 but then came with a fail class system instead of bringing the goodness of job system from XI.

I'm all up for change, but so long as it's successful and fun.
I think they are finally heading in the right direction with introducing jobs back into the game, but i just really feel they need to abolish the class system as pointed out by OP. It's just redundant, i see no serious justification for it. If anything, it will only serve to hinder the new job system or vice versa.