Do you think that the Twelve will eventually become major players in the plot?

[WhiteArchmage]

That's actually a very interesting thought, if the Ascians are backing Ysaile AND pulling the strings of the Archbishop then they're fabricating the war or prolonging it for their own agenda. Which frankly isn't surprising and it also reminds me a lot of the Lucavi from FFT, for several reason which I may expand later. >_>

[Tsuga]

I suspect that the Twelve are linked to the Warriors of Light and The Echo. I feel like they could have been a former band of people gifted with the Echo, much like The Path of the Twelve was, and that they gained mastery of the echo, which has been alluded to being similar to the ascian's power. This may have led to them performing great deeds, as the antithesis to the ascians, which led to stories and tales, and eventually worship of them.

I don't read into a ton of lore, though, so maybe there's something out there that disproves this theory!

So yeah, I do think we'll see a lot more about them, the more we learn about the echo, and what it truly is/leads to.

[Kuwagami]

Shiva also seemed to be an independent operation--although the Ascians are involved with Ishgard, Iceheart is their enemy, so...

Don't forget that once we defeat Shiva, we can see Ascians discussing about it in these terms :

Lahabrea will be pleased

We should not be so fast at discarding the Ascians's implication in Shiva's return.

Which frankly isn't surprising and it also reminds me a lot of the Lucavi from FFT, for several reason which I may expand later. >_>

There are A LOT of references to Ivalice. I wouldn't be surprised it's an other to add to the list

[Anonymoose]

Don't forget that once we defeat Shiva, we can see Ascians discussing about it in these terms:

Lahabrea will be pleased.

To piggy-back off my reply here and keep that train of thought running, I've been using what ifs and maybes for a while to try to explore the evidence as a group, but personally, I don't think there's even the shadow of a doubt that Shiva rose to due Ascian machination. Lahabrea and Nabriales' involvement was obvious without Urianger pointing the finger at them or Nabriales admitting it, imho. However, that doesn't mean it was specifically a part of the larger Ascian council's intentions. Lahabrea seems to be strong-arming the reins into his hand so he can choose how chaos is sown.

The interpretation I formed was that Nabriales said, "Lahabrea will be pleased." because the essence of a primal was successfully put into the hands of Ysayle per Lahabrea's intent due to this growing obsession with merging man and deiform. The reason he followed it up with "How unfortunate," though, is that it gave Lahabrea credibility, when what Nabriales wanted was to rise above him, sit at Zodiark's right hand, and return this world to Darkness. That disappointment is, as far as I can tell so far, the very reason he went off-script and stole Tupsimati as soon as he realized the Light no longer prevented shadow from being cast into the Solar.

Playing sides against each other is what they do. Ishgard and Iceheart are just two figures on their war table.

[myahele]

I hope so.

At the very least I'd love it if Halone gets summoned by the Holy See of Ishgard

[Sapphic]

Strange thought I just had. We know mortals can be turned into primals with revelations of Final Coil and Shiva.

As a thought, what if the 12 where originally the crystal braves, which consisted of......12.

Or just a coinkidink? ^_^

[Risvertasashi]

Strange thought I just had. We know mortals can be turned into primals with revelations of Final Coil and Shiva.

As a thought, what if the 12 where originally the crystal braves, which consisted of......12.

Or just a coinkidink? ^_^

Hehe. Could be. At this point it's all speculation. Maybe we'll see more developments in 3.0 or 4.0, or maybe we'll eventually get an expac focused on the subject. Only time will tell.

[dvoraen]

Strange thought I just had. We know mortals can be turned into primals with revelations of Final Coil and Shiva.

As a thought, what if the 12 where originally the crystal braves, which consisted of......12.

Or just a coinkidink? ^_^

Crystal Braves, or Zodiac Braves? I just wanted to be sure I'm clear which group you meant, here.

Either way, I think it's fairly clear at this point that the Twelve are akin to the primals, but that they have one very major advantage over "normal" primals: the sheer volume of worshippers throughout Eorzea if not (the planet) Hydaelyn. I don't think Gaius and the Ascians are wrong when it concerns invoking/summoning the Twelve. Nabriales has no reason to lie to us about it, and corroborated Gaius' claim that the Twelve are exactly the same as the primals. Given how Tupsimati works, the circumstances are completely the same for calling upon the Twelve as any other primal; the difference lies in the fact that an actual manifestation of any of the Twelve would be extremely powerful due to how many prayers are devoted to that "deiform entity", which I presume means the requisite aether (and aetherial drain to the land) is just as equally greater. In addition, a side quest in Southern Thanalan mentions an Ascian attempt to have Rhalgr summoned by some of the hotheaded youths of Little Ala Mhigo, which is also fuel for "The Twelve are really powerful primals", because the Ascians have been actively encouraging primal summoning.

So in short, what I think happened was that the Twelve were heroes from an early (the First?) Age, who became primals and had their memory live on through those sapient entities on Eorzea that survived to see them ascend. Because the memory remains, their power can still be enacted even millenia later. What I don't get is why no one has tried to explicitly summon one in the time since that we know of. I suspect it requires an obscene amount of aether to fully call one of the Twelve into manifestation, which is why it hasn't happened yet.

I do hope they go more into the mythology of the Twelve, because it's pretty clear that history was warped in their favor, as Minfilia speculated upon regarding Midgardsormr's pact of watching over Silvertear.