A more summonery Summoner

[Allyrion]

Another part to consider is that they really do take their lore seriously.

I think we might be able to learn to do a complete transformation like Iceheart does.
It's temporary and would be in our control (like she controls Shiva).

They tied up all this lore about the general existence of primals being harmful and that we can't control the stuff bigger than the egi.
Even if we learnt to, it would take crystals to sustain them and they would be harming the realm.

I always thought it'd be cool if the SMN could jump on the primal's back and power it up to at least a reasonable size.
Then it could do special moves.

But SE's solution seems a lot cleaner and bypasses the lore issues, while also having notable precedent in the story (with Iceheart, our fellow Echo user).
To me, making way for the summon is a big part of it.
Even when they added interaction with them, it emphasized that even more because you were still in control but there was only one.
It's a one man party doing huge damage.

Obviously, in an MMO, you can't really do that. And to me, pets can be clunky and interactions with them can add visual clutter as well.
You can't replace the whole party but you can replace yourself. I think that's a good turn and I hope they're developing it like that.


I'm mostly thinking about WoW's Demonology Warlock. It's all based on doing dot and supplementary damage to build up Demonic Fury, then turning into a big Demon.
In that form, it's moves get turned into Demon infused versions of the spells. It's a burn phase and you spend the fury and then go back to building it up.
It has a pet, but the pet just has minor interaction, like our egis. Most of its damage is still auto-attacks, but it builds fury for the master.

I think SMN would be really cool following that design and could have all the things the summons have been known for in the past.
The cinematic nature, the big damage burn and even the character replacing.
You're making way for the power that's clearly bigger than yourself, but your will controls it.

I don't think the character should be doing their own thing while still controlling all that power.
But you also can't have them standing focusing on the summon.
A full transformation is a much more elegant work around.

I'm hoping the only reason there's no form change is because of lore reasons, or just to keep something for the class to grow into.
We could learn it from Iceheart in Heavensward.

[Lamia-Blackheart]

As a summoner main, I would like to re-iterate that I am 100% satisfied with summoner. I am 100% satisfied with the egis, the direction the job is going in, and its place in the overall lore of FFXIV.

Alot of us are just as happy but we simply don't often post it on forums.


Biggest complaint was the itemization for FCoB but I'm over it.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Remember guys, with the new level cap there will probably be new traits for each job to accompany this. One such trait for SMN could easily be one for the Egi that permanently increases their size and DPS. This would explain the larger looking Ifrit in the end of the HW benchmark. So the Egi may be getting some love for the HW launch after all, you never know.

[Spellbinder]

snip

Just thought I'd chime in now and say that no, there will be no new traits. It was mentioned in one of the myriad interviews Yoshi-P has had as of late. It would take a little bit to find, but it's out there. I also wouldn't get my hopes up on bigger Egi just because of the benchmark. I've found the Egi have always had a way to look larger than they really are if you swing the camera the right way.

But I digress. The tone of the thread seems to have become more civil, which is always good. All we can do now is just wait for the release. I've been toying around with some thoughts in my head, and after we've all had time to grasp all the changes, I'm thinking of starting up some good ol' fashioned discussion (like these old threads: (Un)Official Arcanist/Summoner Feedback Thread, 召喚士に関するフィードバックを書くスレ).

[SoloWingMetatron]

Just thought I'd chime in now and say that no, there will be no new traits. It was mentioned in one of the myriad interviews Yoshi-P has had as of late. It would take a little bit to find, but it's out there. I also wouldn't get my hopes up on bigger Egi just because of the benchmark. I've found the Egi have always had a way to look larger than they really are if you swing the camera the right way.

Ah ok well if that's the case then that is unfortunate, new traits are always good. But to be fair there was no real evidence to suggest we would be getting new traits lol. All I had to go off was that seemingly larger Ifrit, but as you say camera angles can be deceiving. However try as I might to re create similar shots from the benchmark (with different positions and camera angles) the Ifrit in the benchmark is still noticeably bigger. Leading me to believe he has definitely been scaled up.



In this shot in particular taken from the benchmark, Ifrit looks considerably larger.



Now if we compare it to a similar shot that I have taken, notice how he is way smaller? In the pic from the benchmark Ifrit's head is equal in size to that of the player. Where as my Ifrit's head is noticeably smaller, even when at a similar position. Camera angles can only do so much, the Ifrit is definitely bigger, as to why...who knows.

I should also point out that in my screenshot, my Ifrit is directly behind me. Any closer and his arm would have clipped through me. Any further back and he would have looked even smaller.

[pandabearcat]

The most interesting part of that is the extra wing/claws on ifrit's shoulders.

[SoloWingMetatron]

The most interesting part of that is the extra wing/claws on ifrit's shoulders.

Yeah, there is no question the benchmark Ifrit is bigger. Not only his is head larger, but his entire torso is when compared to my Ifrit. Though it does seem odd why SE would go to the effort of blatantly scaling the model just for the sake of making that sequence more visually impressive. Maybe it was something they originally intended to give SMN for HW but then abandoned for Bahamut Trance, we may never know.

Unless of course new traits are being added after all.