o.O Overkill on the crafting Dumb down?

[Holland]

And the waters are calmed for now at least... until tuesday.

Thank you Bay and Yoshida for stating the obvious.

I say obvious because in fact, it is. After you return a system to basics, then you build upon it with more complicated mechanics (Materia system, more difficult recipes, hard to aquire materials, etc.) I find it funny he had to come about and explain that when everything that has been going in this game is exactly that.. a return to basics... it happened in battle system and what we got? Dzemael Darkhold and Toto-rak (if done at rank required) which brought an amazing sense of accomplishment and difficulties, and only was accomplish after returning the system back to basics.

The same thing is being done with physical leves, stats being done again, etc. the complexity latyer will be itroduced with Jobs on top of the simple classes.... so it was obvious the craft system would take the same route.

Eventhoug ranking up, weather be with a battle or craft class, should come with somehow a sense of accomplishment the act of ranking up should not be the main focus on the game, but rather, in terms of the craft classes should come with finally being able to craft that amazingly difficult piece of gear/weapon/materia etc. the same goes with battle classes.

In summary, yes, the removal of parts (whether in all or some recipes, it does not really matter) makes the system return to basics so the developers can build from there. We have a 60 page thread about worries that are unfounded. Even before you, the players, the first people that want the game to succeed is SE, Yoshida-san, the Dev Team. They know they are on a tight schedule and have almost zero room for screw ups because of all the acticapated titles coming in and the difficult part of retaining players. So the mere thought of the craft system to be simplified to something no one would enjoy did not cross any of the Dev team's minds.

I made an earlier post confirming this way back on the thread, I said "they are set to do this, the option that we have now is to help the dev on how to improve from what they have planned". Its their game, they are taking huge tons of feed back, but just like the claim system, just like enmity icon, HP bar, Auto attack, etc everyone keeps jumping the gun and creating threads likes this one. The tittle of this thread reflects the inability (while I agree rightfully worried) to look at the bigger picture and/or the future this game will have in terms of future gear and recipes.

Its their game, they will implement and/or change what they feel is right, they will ask for opinions, we can provide examples on how we would like things implemented, but dont jump the gun before we receive full details on the full extent of the changes... this 60 page thread was born from One (1) example of a recipe being changed.

Please... on all future changes, wait on more details and then provide feedback on how anythign could be iimproved, this game is beta still, going through core changes, take it as such, evrythign will keep changing...

/rant off =p

[Wynn]

And the waters are calmed for now at least... until tuesday.

Thank you Bay and Yoshida for stating the obvious.

I say obvious because in fact, it is. After you return a system to basics, then you build upon it with more complicated mechanics (Materia system, more difficult recipes, hard to aquire materials, etc.) I find it funny he had to come about and explain that when everything that has been going in this game is exactly that.. a return to basics... it happened in battle system and what we got? Dzemael Darkhold and Toto-rak (if done at rank required) which brought an amazing sense of accomplishment and difficulties, and only was accomplish after returning the system back to basics.

The same thing is being done with physical leves, stats being done again, etc. the complexity latyer will be itroduced with Jobs on top of the simple classes.... so it was obvious the craft system would take the same route.

Eventhoug ranking up, weather be with a battle or craft class, should come with somehow a sense of accomplishment the act of ranking up should not be the main focus on the game, but rather, in terms of the craft classes should come with finally being able to craft that amazingly difficult piece of gear/weapon/materia etc. the same goes with battle classes.

In summary, yes, the removal of parts (whether in all or some recipes, it does not really matter) makes the system return to basics so the developers can build from there. We have a 60 page thread about worries that are unfounded. Even before you, the players, the first people that want the game to succeed is SE, Yoshida-san, the Dev Team. They know they are on a tight schedule and have almost zero room for screw ups because of all the acticapated titles coming in and the difficult part of retaining players. So the mere thought of the craft system to be simplified to something no one would enjoy did not cross any of the Dev team's minds.

I made an earlier post confirming this way back on the thread, I said "they are set to do this, the option that we have now is to help the dev on how to improve from what they have planned". Its their game, they are taking huge tons of feed back, but just like the claim system, just like enmity icon, HP bar, Auto attack, etc everyone keeps jumping the gun and creating threads likes this one. The tittle of this thread reflects the inability (while I agree rightfully worried) to look at the bigger picture and/or the future this game will have in terms of future gear and recipes.

Its their game, they will implement and/or change what they feel is right, they will ask for opinions, we can provide examples on how we would like things implemented, but dont jump the gun before we receive full details on the full extent of the changes... this 60 page thread was born from One (1) example of a recipe being changed.

Please... on all future changes, wait on more details and then provide feedback on how anythign could be iimproved, this game is beta still, going through core changes, take it as such, evrythign will keep changing...

/rant off =p

You don't know what you are talking about. It wasn't based on the recipe example, it was based on these statements:

Abolishment of Parts from Synthesis - Very Bad
Revisions to Materials and Intermediary Materials - Good
Removal of Secondary Skill Requirements - Helpful
Removal of Crafting Facility and Treatise Requirements - Good in a way
Simplified Color Customization - Best Part!

Removing parts is not going back to basics, it is cutting a hole in the system. You do not amputate to cure a bone fracture. If they rearrange levels of grindable recipes or add new non-finished item recipes to grind on, there is no issue, but if they do not you are all in for it when you try to level crafting. Mark my words. Which, by the way, they still have not responded regarding this question. So they have stated something yes, but not addressed the issue raised here in any way.

[Amiricle]

You don't know what you are talking about. It wasn't based on the recipe example, it was based on these statements:



Removing parts is not going back to basics, it is cutting a hole in the system. You do not amputate to cure a bone fracture. If they rearrange levels of grindable recipes or add new non-finished item recipes to grind on, there is no issue, but if they do not you are all in for it when you try to level crafting. Mark my words. Which, by the way, they still have not responded regarding this question. So they have stated something yes, but not addressed the issue raised here in any way.

Agree. Also the removal of treatise requirements was unnecessary as it gave small goals to strive for. Also I thought it was already nice that you could still attempt the recipe without having thekey item. In ffxi you were not allowed, period.

[LuxLex]

I think it is more due to the fact that the rank 12 weaver with food, manual training, and synth support can make rank 18 gear instead.

Well, the rank 5 weaver can't make the cloth to make the clothes or the pieces - which is the whole point of these changes. It doesn't make sense for the finished item to be a rank 1 synth (which takes forever to make) when all the parts are 10 and above.

It isn't like people are selling hemp clothing parts on the market that people can buy and craft into gear themselves either. I don't see any hemp tunic fronts in the wards, and I never have.

[Oscillate_Wildly]

I went to bed in a fairly terrible mood over several things, but this was on the top of my large pile of feelings (I JUST HAVE A LOT OF THEM) and I'm glad that the devs got a response out of Yoshida for this!! = w= Ahhh. Peace. I am happy to hear this is the case.

[Lienn]

Yoshida had a chance to speak about the large discussion that has been revolving around the recently announced changes to crafting.

Oh lord...the very same crap as FFXI again...I can see once again you not being able to go past 40 anymore because recipes will start nrequiring NM drops and other rare stuff so or you gett a LS to bank your craft or just stay at 40.

Also, this comment leaves the taste that the main feature of crafter recipes, which is being superior primary stat-wise to endgame items while in higher tier high quality might be removed...because it doesn't sound like anything that will be easiy to HQ...it sounds more like something you will be happy in completing the craft :/

[Holland]

You don't know what you are talking about. It wasn't based on the recipe example, it was based on these statements:



Removing parts is not going back to basics, it is cutting a hole in the system. You do not amputate to cure a bone fracture. If they rearrange levels of grindable recipes or add new non-finished item recipes to grind on, there is no issue, but if they do not you are all in for it when you try to level crafting. Mark my words. Which, by the way, they still have not responded regarding this question. So they have stated something yes, but not addressed the issue raised here in any way.

It is not cutting a hole in the system. is in fact returning it to basics, to then create more complex recipes from the simplified/streamlined system.

As it is now, its been said to death, without reffering back to the dead horse of level difference requirements, having different ranks in different classes to craft every piece of gear, the feedback given to simply remove those recipes that are lower level but still require parts that are higher level etc

The actual craft process for one piece of gear consist of about 15 - 30 minutes NOT crafting, but looking for the parts or crafting the yourself, for normal piece of gear... thats not fun at all...

Edit: and you know why you dont know what will happen or how we are going to rank up? because you are not developing the craft system. you are a player, nothing more. The same issue was raised and brought to the attetion when leves were phased out as main forms or ranking up for parties.. and guess what.. grind paries happened. new recipes will be itroduced, new simpler recipes.... to grind on... this is just one feature they are changing, they posted one feature only, not the whole plan...

Basically you are saying: "they posted the whole changes the crafting system will go through.."

No they did not.

[XxOstiaxX]

Comparing this to NGE ? Really ? are people dillusional ?

[Sorel]

I think it is more due to the fact that the rank 12 weaver with food, manual training, and synth support can make rank 18 gear instead.

I was not aware that a Rank 12 Weaver could purchase a training manual. I was always under the impression that you had to be high enough rank to join a guild before they let you purchase training.

Am I mistaken?

[MariyaShidou]

Here is what a friend of mine said in support of these changes:

It's because of demand and supply. At launch, there were aplenty of hempen gears and cotton gears made by players and bazaared on the steps in Ul'dah. That lasts until almost everyone left playing move on quickly to next tiers, and the faster leveling curve couple with lower newbie entries don't help at all. You outgrow Hempen gears by matter of hours for DoW/DoM and few days for DoH/DoL, most people wouldn't bother to get them. As such there is almost no demand for it, and those few people who wanted it will find no such supply anymore.

Comparing this to NGE ? Really ? are people dillusional ?

Should we compare it to WoW? Really? Why are you still trolling over here? You said stuff it all in ZAM couple of months back and gone.