Mass pulls: don't do this.

[Jim_Berry]

Funny!

I entered Snowcloak today as WHM. The PLD used Sprint and mostly used sight-aggro. Getting ALL the way to the locked door, I didn't heal him until that point.

There were multiple mass pulls that we finished Snowcloak before we realized we were running it lol...

[Izsha]

'In current gear'.

You shouldn't rely on gear to make a pull successful. That's not a better way to pull, that's getting away with a bad habit because ilvl carries you with an extra few k hp so you don't need that regen or other cure.

Objective fact: a tank mass pulling with aggro on everything is safer than mass pulling without aggro. No risk of emergency heal jacking it uo. No risk of zealous dps scattering the mobs before you secure them. Aggro is better than no aggro.

That is not up for discussion. Your entire argument is based on tanks stopping and taking extra damage, not about threat. The tanks job is to find a way to do that without taking extra damage, and if you use your tools properly you can. Just as you talk about mobs not being in neat packs, every Lv 50 dungeon is a series of hallways. This isnt pulling AV 1st room. They are little packs of 3 to 4 mobs then a good space, then another pack all in constricted hallways. There are ways to grab almost every pack of mobs without taking circuitous routes or stopping.

There are ways to pull a variety of groupings balancing tp and mp properly for your job (war or pld) to have gas in the tank and it's been done a million times. Do I need to make paint diagrams of every possible mob grouping with instructions?
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as for needing maim, you only need maim up for the zerk/unchain/bloodbath/overpower madness when the killing starts. You don't need maim to flash and tomahawk stuff. Melee pulling is bad because it has no range and low enmity. You just get more beat up doing it.

Pld sprint pulls are nifty, but don't work for wars cuz tp vs mp etc. Pld sprint pulls are a bit if a special case because of the speed, and in a full castor group everyone can sprint without jeopardizing the kill.
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End of the day there's 2 points:
1. Tank that can't aggro stuff without stopping is not being a good tank.
2. Face pulling works sometimes when you overgear content enough doesn't make it 'better', it's using gear as a crutch to be bad (see #1). Properly pulled mobs don't make a tank stop and get beat up.

[Zfz]

Some people in the thread assume that I'm a regen-happy healer. I'm not. I'm a PLD main and WHM is my second class. It is a fact that I can establish proper enmity on all mobs as I do mass pulls in all the current content and I have no problems pulling with Regen on me. So either I'm too good a tank (and I know I'm just your average tank) or some tanks are just trying to offload responsibility to healers.

So unless you're sprint pulling, just do it properly.

Yes if sprint-pulling tanks won't get hit. But no most tanks who don't sprint when mass pulling will get their HP reduced during the pull by mobs that don't do immediate AoEs on proximity. There are many, many times when I see tanks already dropping down to 50% when they get to the last pack they want to pull (i.e. the previous packs have not congregated). Then if I don't see the tank pop cooldowns (believe it or not, not every tank pops cooldowns, many are even Zeta+Coils gear wielding tanks who think because they wear 130 they are somehow taking less hits and don't need cooldowns), it's Cure 2 spam to just keep the tank alive, sometimes even Benediction, meaning those proximity-pulled mobs that follows turn right on to me as they reach the tank.

Just do the right thing and learn how to establish enmity properly.

Bottom line, other tanks (including me) have no problem pulling with proper enmity on every target. There's no reason not to (except when sprint pulling). So whatever your reasons for not doing it, you're choosing to under-perform.

[Illya]

When we're in expac and gear is on-level with dungeon again for a week or so, the tanks who don't establish aggro during pulls are going to die halfway to the next pack or get their healers killed when they don't have aggro and the healer heals them and the mobs melt the healer. Learn to do it right now or you're going to have a bad time leveling and just reaching the new cap in Heavensward.

[SpookyGhost]

It would do everyone well to learn how to generate aggro while moving come the expansion.

Just sayin'.

[Illya]

I was just thining we're also going to have an influx of new Dark Knights for expac as well Spooky. DF is going to be exciting in expac, I can feel it already. :3

[Gorlioliolio]

This is how you do it if you want to run slow speed runs.

If your confident in your healers ability to not heal prematurely and dps to wait until everything gets to you to start up then you should NEVER need a new stoneskin or heal mid pull. If you utilize sprint, you might take 1 melee hit per pack, instead of 3 mobs from pack 1 hitting every 2.5s plus 3 mobs from pack 2 hitting every 2.5s, and oh look theres some mobs from pack 3 hitting you as well.

To the OP, get a healer you trust and attempt to do it this way just los pulling using sprint and you will never go back to the stupidly slow way you do it now, unless your in a df pug and you don't trust the healer.

[Sleigh]

'In current gear'.

This is the strangest argument ... gear lets you do things you can't do in less gear. Bad habit or not in lower gear, what becomes more efficient is more efficient in higher gear. When it comes time to play safer, with weaker players or doing current content, that's a different story and I don't think anyone here advocating doing faster styles means to only do this style regardless of the situation. By your argument, tanks shouldn't be tanking in Sword Oath or without Defiance because it's much harder to do that in min iLVL without echo. You have to live in the present.

When you say "bad habit" or "crutch" I am so confused by what you actually mean in this situation, no offense, because tanking's not hard, you just do what your gear allows.

[SpookyGhost]

This is how you do it if you want to run slow speed runs.

I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure how pressing Flash while Sprinting instead of not pressing Flash while Sprinting could possibly slow down the run.

[Koenignovi]

As long as I don't have Regen on me at the start of the pull, I've never had a problem with the mobs following me instead of some other player. Even if I were to flash/lob/spirits one set to another, if another player performs an action on the mob there is a solid chance they will take the hate from me since I am not paying attention to the mob at that instance.

I understand the need to have controlled hate, but it is as much the parties job to understand the pulls as it is the puller doing it. The puller should be able to maintain themselves from one group to the next before the healer is needed to heal. As long as they are capped and SS before each pull, they have cool downs to help them out.

Bottom line is, if you're not keen on mass pulling, dont do it.