PLD is a very boring class compared to WAR.

[elemental10]

So, you're saying PLD needs a fun mechanic?

He's a defensive class with a lot of mitigation abilities. Being a defensive class, OF COURSE he gets a lot of defensive buffs, while only one offensive buff.

Every class in FFXIV has a place in the world, and each blends with each other quite well. PLD's place is to be the top of defensive class, while WAR is more towards offensive stuff.

I main as WAR but I also do a lot of endgame stuff with my PLD and generally like both of the playstyle equally.

Regardless, I can't really see the point of this thread except for you to state your opinion. Maybe include in some discussion or thoughts on how to improve PLD to be your level of "fun" class?

[Omskahn]

He's a defensive class with a lot of mitigation abilities. Being a defensive class, OF COURSE he gets a lot of defensive buffs, while only one offensive buff.

PLD's place is to be the top of defensive class, while WAR is more towards offensive stuff.

Not a single person in this thread is arguing whether or not paladin should be defensive or not. What most of us are saying is that the WAY in which the job is great at defending is very boring in that it involves a bunch of cooldowns you just pop whenever you're taking damage, point blank, no decisions, or thought required. The job is extremely passive in how it tanks, as opposed to warriors, that have more involved systems in their employ to stay survivable. Notice the issue isn't more offense versus defense.

Idk I just hate that almost all there is to the whole class is: 1-2-3, flash flash flash, 1-2-3, pop cooldowns when ur taking dmg, to take less damage, done.

[Mugiawara]

HW should remedy a bit of this. I do understand that WAR/PLD are completely different bro's
but it can be a defensive class without being incredibly repetitive. You're always going to get a snooze
tank though for the sake of simplicity for Tankies first time. Let's see how DRK plays.
I'ma try to level both anyways because PLD looks cool now at 60 lol.

[VargasVermillion]

I don't think the new combos will change much, it'll give you more to do but it'll still be the set and forget tank unless it's new utility skills need to be used a lot but from their descriptions it seems they'll just be situational utility like cover or tempered will, stuff that essentially needs to have fights designed around them to make them relevant. Doesn't really have a mechanic like the other tanks do. I'll likely level it first though so who knows maybe I'll be proved wrong.

[Edellis]

So, you're saying PLD needs a fun mechanic?

He's a defensive class with a lot of mitigation abilities. Being a defensive class, OF COURSE he gets a lot of defensive buffs, while only one offensive buff.

Regardless, I can't really see the point of this thread except for you to state your opinion. Maybe include in some discussion or thoughts on how to improve PLD to be your level of "fun" class?

Sure! Simply based off the way other classes work

1) Change Flash to something else, maybe some kind of magical circle blast wave or spinning slash or something that feels deserving of enmity and MP usage. Give it crappy on-hit damage, like 25 potency, idk.

2) Shield Bash > Can now automatically toggle Shield Swipe

3) Sword Oath > Adds traits to sword skills when active:

Flash > Now deals DoT damage, like 50 potency. Somewhat low duration.
Riot Blade > Now applies bleed DoT to enemy.
Halone > Nothing really needs to change here?
Scorn > Now adds full tick damage on-hit as well as DoT. (like thundercloud)
Spirits Within > further increases base damage, by amount of Gladiator DoTs on target. (now Flash, Riot, and Scorn)

4) Shield Oath > Increases block rate by 60%, Receive 10% less damage, output 20% less damage, enmity increase, adds traits to shield skills:

Shield Swipe > also reduces incoming damage by 10% for a duration.
Bulwark > increases block rate by 40%
Shield Lob > Pacification

I dunno. Just add some synergy to the stances, give paladin OTs a burst combo and some DPS to play around with, and give Shield Oath PLD something to manage other than pop all their CDs when their HP starts falling too fast. I don't necessarily think this is "better", just more...engaging.


Again, i dont think there's anything wrong with PLD being a mitigation tank, or that it's bad at its job, other than its current design being boring. It's very efficient at its job. My issue with the class is that it has no mechanics built into it. Paladin has Sword Oath and Shield Oath, but unlike other classes, using those stances don't change anything about the way you play the class, it just passively makes what you're already doing more efficient, and you're only ever doing one thing. Even with Sword/Shield, Paladin is literally the same class from level 26 to level 50, and then to endgame. There are no abilities you acquire on Paladin that change your rotation, or allow you access to different ones.

[Omskahn]

Suggestions

Exactly. Abilities that synergize and combo off of each other, not just mitigation stacked on top of mitigation over and over. Right now I think the only two abilities that even kind of work together out of combos are bulwark and shield swipe. And like the guy above said, that makes it an interesting skill. If pally had more of that, like:

-Circle of scorn having its DoT dmg increased, but you could pop with another skill to trade the DoT effect for huge enmity gain
-Stacking bonus for each enemy targeting you, attacking you, near you, whatever.
-Abilities that give you stacks, or some minor resource to be spent elsewhere...

Just something so you have more to do than just RoH, flash and not die... I've honestly been thinking about this a lot recently and came up with a thought - Maybe SE actually wanted to the Paladin to be this shallow as a way for players that don't want to be that engaged in playing to be able to tank as well?

[elemental10]

Suggestions

I agree with some of your suggestions but I just cannot see how adding a small potency to Flash (or changing it's animation to something flashier) would make it a more fun class. I am not a smart man, I say that now.

By your perspectives, an "engaging" class, as you put it, requires you to actively think on what is best to do based on your situation or to put it in your words, "to get out of my normal rotation." I see that as the likes of (mudra on NIN, jumps on DRG, procs on BLM/BRD, stances on MNK). I AGREE with your notion of a more engaging class. Just, in my opinion, PLD is more towards a passive stance where you don't have to do much to GET much.

Shield/Sword Oath hardly requires a buff (otherwise the "WAR is gimped" threads will then pop up like mushrooms), but I do agree that it must have some kind of effect into your normal rotations. It would spice to an already delicious dish.

I will defend this though: PLD is a class of it's own. There is no need to base it's skills based on other classes. Instead, make NEW mechanics towards it (counter attack comes to mind). I do not want another WAR or NIN. I want a new PLD that makes other classes WISH they have something that is the same as PLD.

"I wish PLD has something like WAR." Let's change that to, "I wish WAR has something like PLD."

[Omskahn]

...PLD is a class of it's own. There is no need to base it's skills based on other classes. Instead, make NEW mechanics towards it...

This is what I've always wanted. It's own unique mechanics that make it special and engaging. Some ideas I had:

-CoS doing huge dmg, but using another ability to tag a mob to proc enmity gain?
-Stacking bonus for each enemy targeting you, attacking you, near you, whatever.
-Abilities that give you stacks, or some minor resource to be spent elsewhere...

Just something. Paladin is a good effective tank. It's actual abilities are not very creatively inspiring or challenging atm. Personally one of the most fun parts of the game for me is leveling up and unlocking new cool abilities. For GLA/PLD after level 26, 7 of the 11 remaining skills to learn are just defensive cooldowns that serve the same purpose: press this button to instantly start taking less damage. That's it, and I think that's bad.