HW bard- channeling?

[kirk]

That's mostly cause there are a lot of bad players out there. In DF/PF, I generally beat out 95% of the other dps I end up with. Then I go to my coil static, and get reminded that when paired with other dps of equal skill/gear, brd still has the lowest dps potential among the dps classes.

Does not help we have the lowest weapon damage in game but with the right rotation you can do high dps just nothing like a monk/drg >_< (on topic) hopefully barrage with work with Wm somehow or it'll be a fairly big dps loss

[RinchanNau]

That's mostly cause there are a lot of bad players out there. In DF/PF, I generally beat out 95% of the other dps I end up with. Then I go to my coil static, and get reminded that when paired with other dps of equal skill/gear, brd still has the lowest dps potential among the dps classes.

Depends on the content really. In FCoB there is that reminder of having the lowest potential. Though multi dotting can close that gap quite a bit in t10 and t12. And t13, if there's a DRG, always gave me the best chance to be up there with melee. Now move over to something like t9 savage and BRD and SMN start looking a lot nicer. I think I've been top DPS on every t9 savage kill I've done. That's not to say there aren't melee that can beat me, but it's just an easier fight for BRD to optimize.

[Zamii]

but it's just an easier fight for BRD to optimize.

sorry but i have to point this out, being easier to optimize does not mean by default you should beat the other dps, and balance changes shouldn't be made that way either, because even though its harder to optimize, if the classes were balanced by that the melle that do manage to optimize would be so far above the other dps it wouldnt even be funny

[spelley]

sorry but i have to point this out, being easier to optimize does not mean by default you should beat the other dps, and balance changes shouldn't be made that way either, because even though its harder to optimize, if the classes were balanced by that the melle that do manage to optimize would be so far above the other dps it wouldnt even be funny

Melee often have more downtime due to (usually) dealing with more mechanics than ranged (and in Bard's case, being able to move) and having more complex rotations/internal mechanics. BLM have really high damage and more simple rotations, at the expense of having to stay rooted and moving having a high DPS cost. Bards do (to a point) less damage than either of them with the ability to be far more mobile and have support/utility.

The issue for Bards (at least to an outsider) seems to be that there are fights where their mobility doesn't benefit them. Heavensward is adjusting things but keeping a balance. DRG, MNK and NIN are all getting "moar damage" and some raid utility, since "being melee/in danger" can't really change. For BLM they are doubling-down on the "no mobility for damage" with their Fire4/Blizz4 circle.Bards are being able to balance out their damage by trading mobility, so instances where their mobility is "pointless," they are no longer being hindered (as far as we know). Summoner I'm hoping is getting more burst, so they can handle clearing adds/DPS races better, which might be the case with their Bahamut-stacks thing to tackle their issues.

My guess is there will be more fights where mobility matters, since a good bit of the new mechanics actually involve positioning and I'd bet dollars to donuts that there will be plenty of times where *not* channeling is the right answer.

[RinchanNau]

sorry but i have to point this out, being easier to optimize does not mean by default you should beat the other dps, and balance changes shouldn't be made that way either, because even though its harder to optimize, if the classes were balanced by that the melle that do manage to optimize would be so far above the other dps it wouldnt even be funny

Melee being above a job like BRD isn't really an issue to me. Considering that just by not playing Paeon I can lower a skilled melee's DPS by 30-40 on certain encounters. Factor in that most parties have two melees these days and often at least one of the tanks heavily spec'd for DPS. Note that I can lower a caster's DPS by quite a bit as well by not providing them with a BV Foe or two. Or three if we're undergeared and the encounter is long enough. I have the power to assist healers struggling with MP as well.

Don't get me wrong, I love min maxing and trying to play a job to its fullest. I'd love to be able to compete more with melee on these dummy test encounters FCoB gave us. But I am also aware of other things I offer the raid as a BRD. I do not think BRD is really underpowered even if I always wish for a higher ceiling. I think it's generally balanced pretty well for what a bard can offer the raid with Foe, Paeon, and Ballad.

Wanderer's Minuet may help narrow the DPS gap on dummy test sorts of encounters. We'll find out shortly.

[Zamii]

Melee often have more downtime due to (usually) dealing with more mechanics than ranged (and in Bard's case, being able to move) and having more complex rotations/internal mechanics.

this all comes back down to the optimization i mentioned, almost every mechanic in the game that forces melle off the boss actually has workarounds that mean you lose no dps at all, or very little dps, the few mechanics that force you out entirely will affect everyone, not just the melle.

[Zophar]

Yep. A big part of any job is knowing how to reduce those mechanic penalties to their very minimum, whether it be knowing when to save procs on blm, or when to save moves like spineshatter on drg for a gap closer, or perfect balance on mnk when you KNOW you're about to lose your stacks and myriad other tricks. Optimizing a dps is more than just having the perfect rotation.

[pandabearcat]

Mostly because no class has any real moving parts, so fights are the entirety of the randomness and "skill" that comes into playing a class.

Otherwise you're essentially just playing on auto.

[Dante_V]

Overall it seems like a very nice addition IMO. The ability to diversify tactics and give up mobility for more dps is huge and could really boost a bards dps. Obviously there are unknown intricacies involving auto attacks, barrage, and other moves but I'm sure the developers have taken this into account.

[spelley]

this all comes back down to the optimization i mentioned, almost every mechanic in the game that forces melle off the boss actually has workarounds that mean you lose no dps at all, or very little dps, the few mechanics that force you out entirely will affect everyone, not just the melle.

"Has workarounds" ie: the melee has to react accordingly and do, oftentimes, counter-intuitive things. For a Dragoon, for instance, effective uses of jumps for positioning (while still keeping them on CD at all other times) requires skill. A good DPS will refresh their DoTs as a higher priority if they know they have to move away from boss for a while (even if it clips them by X%). A good DRG will know the last second they can keep DPSing and then use a <X> Jump to reposition themselves for adds/next mechanic to minimize downtime. A good MNK will know how to maintain their Greased Lightning (or know when to expend them come HW) with a boss jumping in and out of combat. A NIN knows what Ninjutsus to use and when during any phase of the fight so they are maximizing their DPS time.

Learning how to incorporate all that while maintaining complex damage rotations, avoiding (even more) AoEs, keeping mechanics/adds in mind, managing their enmity output at times and dealing with positionals and their standing position is what separates a good melee DPS from a bad one.