The Rejoining (Spoilers for EVERYTHING up to 2.55, welcome to Lore)

[Fenral]

Unless you're talking about something else I've missed, isn't that the Kum Kum (from the Amon fight) model holding a scythe, rather than a 1.0 Ascian?

Was it? Now that you mention it, I suppose the Ascian model is a bit more hunched over. Guess it'll be a boss sometime later.

[WyrahFhurrst]

Was it? Now that you mention it, I suppose the Ascian model is a bit more hunched over. Guess it'll be a boss sometime later.

Or perhaps that's the Ascians' "true form" Elidibus spoke of? The hunched over skeleton, I mean.

[Fenral]

Or perhaps that's the Ascians' "true form" Elidibus spoke of? The hunched over skeleton, I mean.

Well, yeah, but we need to fight one. Maybe as the falling-action finale boss (a la Lahabrea!Thancred) at the end of 3.0.

[Duuude007]

I thought the scythe holder just represented "death", the grim reaper that would kill a party member if their doom timer hit zero in previous FF games.

[gamesmart]

I thought the scythe holder just represented "death", the grim reaper that would kill a party member if their doom timer hit zero in previous FF games.

I believe it does. It pops up on the Enemy List for a short time while it's in the playing field, and from what I remember (haven't entered that place in a very long time) its name is literally "Grim Reaper". I doubt it has any connection to the Ascians, as I don't remember them getting involved with the Crystal Tower storyline at all.

[Fenral]

I believe it does. It pops up on the Enemy List for a short time while it's in the playing field, and from what I remember (haven't entered that place in a very long time) its name is literally "Grim Reaper".

Oh, I was just pointing out the possibility of them having recycled the assets used on that model, not any connection to the Ascians themselves.

I doubt it has any connection to the Ascians, as I don't remember them getting involved with the Crystal Tower storyline at all.

Considering the Ascians claim responsibility of ALL the Umral Eras, they were probably involved with Zande's resurrection and the time-stop used on the Crystal Tower, so I actually find it extremely hard to believe that the entire thing could have happened under their radar. And yet it did, somehow. Maybe.

[WyrahFhurrst]

Considering the Ascians claim responsibility of ALL the Umral Eras, they were probably involved with Zande's resurrection and the time-stop used on the Crystal Tower, so I actually find it extremely hard to believe that the entire thing could have happened under their radar. And yet it did, somehow. Maybe.

I think the really interesting note there is that they claim responsibility for the First Umbral Era, which ended the Age of the Gods and brought mankind to war with itself. Which means, probably, that the Ascians orchestrated that whole war in order to get the gods away from mankind.

It seems like the Ascians keep trying one complicated scheme after another to destroy the whole of Eorzea's population. I know they're doing it for more than that, but the fact that they've failed 7 times now really makes me wonder if they're more like some sort of classic mad scientist, who keeps getting foiled by the hero (the Warriors of Light).

[Alberel]

I'm wondering if that's truly the case if Elidibris thinks the WoL would side with him if they were stronger with the Echo.

I think it's more a case of some of the 'bad' stuff the Ascians have been doing might not seem so bad if we understood why they were doing it. At least that's how I interpreted Elidibus on that one. This was what original sparked the theories about Hydaelyn actually deceiving us. Either way I think it's safe to say there's a lot we don't yet know about the nature of the universe and it's entirely possible, given a big-picture view via the Echo, that we might see the truth of Elidibus' words.

[Allyrion]

Well, I'm still not entirely convinced he actually did do it for that reason, and has for more malevolent goals for us (I mean, look at him, every time he's spoken it's to belittle, taunt and put down the player - the last scene of 2.55 has him smirking as we stand at the Gates of Judgement and tells us in no uncertain terms that Ishgard will not bring sanctuary to us but just "Delusion, despair and death." After all, he only removed the Blessing of Light from us because it stopped him killing us outright which is what he tried to at first, and which his massive ego wouldn't allow.

It's funny because he's actually much friendlier in Japanese and not nearly as snide at the Gates of Judgement.

Here's a direct comparison of the Keeper of the Lake dialogue directly translated from Japanese and the localized English.
It's a lot less ambiguous.

Midgardsomr is actually one of the few I trust, even more than Hydaelyn (since there's clearly more going on to her backstory with Zodiark).
I'm not saying trust as in, we're bffs and I think he's got my back (there's no doubt he doesn't).
But he doesn't come across as manipulative particularly because he doesn't hide his resentment of humans and he already tried to kill us once.
He comes across as very straightforward and honest to me, even if he doesn't necessarily tell us everything he knows.

And after the PC gets banished and Hydaelyn seems silent to us still, he's the one by our side at the Gates of Judgement.
His warning didn't come off as a threat or even seemed to echo his dragon bias. It seemed like him objectively saying that we're going to get involved a very dangerous conflict.

Even the wiki says

His personality, as shown by his dialogues with the player, is that of a patient, enigmatic figure. He speaks in a slow, deliberate monotone and exhibits archaic speech patterns. While the original Japanese dialogue unquestionably portrays him as an ally of the player character, the English localization characterizes him more ambiguously through the use of Dravanian dialect developed specifically for the English release of the game

I see him as a more enigmatic version of the typical companion character, like Navi (or any of the fairies) in Zelda or Issun from Okami.
I think he wants us to prove ourselves, but he's not going to hold our hand. So he's mostly an observer with little stake in the actual events (despite the events being about the Dragon War).

As such, he is one of the few I think we don't have to be so weary of as an outside party.


Also, I think Nabrielies was sincerely surprised that the Light wasn't protecting us anymore.

[Belhi]

Personally I can see there is the potential for the Ascians to be working towards a greater good. A lot of people have died and suffered because of it but at the same time the Warrior of Light has also killed a lot of people for the greater good. I think however there is a key difference and one that for me personally still places the Ascians as 'bad guys' and that's the Ascians contempt for life on Eorzea. There is no regret or remorse or for the most part even care for the untold millions they have slaughtered for their greater good. The Warrior of Light and the Scions however show consideration for their enemies like the Beast tribes often being critical of the City states for their own actions in making the war with the Beast tribes worse.

Its that general disregard for life that I think places the Ascians in the 'bad guy' category regardless of their intentions. Even if their goals are noble, their methods and attitude are not and that can make a world of difference, particularly in a narrative.