Primary cause of T5 Divebomb failures

[Apricoth]

I had found that people, subconsciously I think, believe that they don't want to invade another person's space and their own personal space not to be encroached on, which leads to people not stacking properly for mechanics such as this. Every time I did T5, I told people there is no such thing as personal space - you stand on top of each other, no exceptions. Just like a pack of cards.

[Zaft]

I'm going to assume that the pit tactic isn't the original method of avoiding dive bombs. How were dive bombs avoided initially?

Some progression groups tried to avoid divebombs by simply spreading out and staying aware. However, this is very inefficient and dangerous. After going over videos, we noticed that divebombs came from predetermined locations, and that by baiting it into a location that was advantageous for dodging, the mechanic became trivial. After we released our kill video, I imagine most people looked at it and said "Oh, that's way easier" and it became the norm.

[Viridiana]

Some progression groups tried to avoid divebombs by simply spreading out and staying aware. However, this is very inefficient and dangerous. After going over videos, we noticed that divebombs came from predetermined locations, and that by baiting it into a location that was advantageous for dodging, the mechanic became trivial. After we released our kill video, I imagine most people looked at it and said "Oh, that's way easier" and it became the norm.

Pretty much. I've never seen any group do it any other way (though I was far from trailblazing in BCOB). Plus, SE pretty much highlights the pit by having the snakes spawn facing into it.

[DukeBurden]

The answer is... #getgood

[synesthetic]

The way this strategy works the way it does is because of the pre-determined locations that twin can appear for the dive bombs, as well as the boss's facing angle. If everyone is stacked correctly, twin appears just slightly in front of the group, targets a player for Divebombs, but since everyone is between Twintania and the wall, Twin faces the wall and dives out of bounds.

Neat. I've never been able to see her dive to even guess at this. I take it that the pit's just been a nice coincidental landmark then. And I feel bad that I know how to Rot, but not the history behind this then. lol
But why did they flatten the arena then? I can't think of any other AoEs that could've been affected.

And for discussion's sake, wouldn't it be the same difference then if everyone started outside of the pit, and then ran into the pit at the sound? (i.e. still run to her backside, but now she's baited to dive inwards) I would figure there'd be less room for positional error, and maybe higher risk of people running into the wall itself. And it's been a long time since I've been in T5, but I recall misbaited dives knocking me backwards and sideways, into the wall.. Would a failed attempt in this scenario tend to move me away from the wall then?

[Xenosan]

This is not accurate. The way this strategy works the way it does is because of the pre-determined locations

Winner!

Want to reiterate, Twin's Divebombs are predetermined, she executes from one of possibly hundreds of different predetermined paths depending on where her target is standing when she targets them. You stack in the pit to bait the outward divebomb which is the easiest one to dodge.

There's probably other decent spots, but it'd take hundreds of wipes and analyzing to find them.

As for hitboxes, sheathing your weapon can help if you need to use your character model as reference. (since your legs aren't as spread when sheathed),

[AdamFyi]

So, I got super curious about some of you guys mentioning the original method and found this since I've never actually seen the original strategy being played out. This probably isn't actually it, but if it is, it seems rather inefficient due to the camera. Link is there if anyone wants to see. o_o

[Lemuria]

What I don't understand is why, contrary to every other battle up to T5, they didn't just add telegraphed AoE markers to the attack. That way we'd know exactly which direction it's coming from and have a far easier time dodging the thing. Nope, we'll just have Twintania fly in from an arbitrary direction so you never really know which way you're supposed to be running unless you take advantage of an exploit.

Don't even get me started on Twister mechanics either. The whole idea of 'keep running and don't cross the streams' is one of the dumbest fight mechanics I've ever encountered in a video game.

[AdamFyi]

What I don't understand is why, contrary to every other battle up to T5, they didn't just add telegraphed AoE markers to the attack.

It's so that you actually pay attention to the field and those around you; since you seem to hate the ditch method. None of the other divebombs in the coils have AoE markers either. :u

Don't even get me started on Twister mechanics either. The whole idea of 'keep running and don't cross the streams' is one of the dumbest fight mechanics I've ever encountered in a video game.

Yet, it is also one of the most effective mechanics in the game. Instead of running around like headless chickens, you actually have to watch where you're going.

[Zaft]

What I don't understand is why, contrary to every other battle up to T5, they didn't just add telegraphed AoE markers to the attack. That way we'd know exactly which direction it's coming from and have a far easier time dodging the thing.

Because having everything handed to you is kind of boring. It's fun to figure out mechanics as a team.

Don't even get me started on Twister mechanics either. The whole idea of 'keep running and don't cross the streams' is one of the dumbest fight mechanics I've ever encountered in a video game.

It was far worse prior to the nerf. Simply put, imagine a large donut has been placed around you. If you stay inside the donut hole, or if you leave the safety of the donut, you die. If you stop moving, you die. If you accidentally step back onto somewhere you previously have, you die. Instead you have to make sure you continue to move, but stay within the donut, without stopping or doubling back. Generally done by moving in a spiral shape (almost like a twister...hey wait!).

Video of what you used to have to do here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEeiyboAydI