[plea] please fix Mudra Lag first, plus please reconsider added positionals for NIN

[Adire]

It's also condescending to type a smiley emoticon after such a statement...

(see what I did there)

What can I say? I can't help but be that way towards people who so obviously twist words around! After seeing that happen so much on these forums, being condescending is really the more mellow reaction I have towards that lol.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

nor the monk nor the dragoon have a skill that can be failed and be reset for 20 second.

Nope but Greased Lightning falls off sometimes. . . and that sucks.

Going to the original topic though: how exactly is adding positionals taking away from the spirit of ninja? Personally I think its giving the class more of an appropriate feel (a highly mobile melee fighter with some fancy hand magic).

[silentwindfr]

how are positionals going to cause you to fail your mudra? TA doesn't impact my mudra and right after NIN was released and before I learned that it was a horrible tooltip error I would always use aeolian edge from the flank and that never caused me to screw up my mudra. Let me rephrase actually, how are positionals going to add to mudra lag issues for you?

why would ppl scrap raiton for fuma (people with horrible mudra lag already do this occasionally, positionals aren't going to force them if they weren't already)? you can move while using mudra and casting them too.

duration of both poisons? are you talking about mutilate, dancing edge and shadow fang's dots?

not everyone play with a controler, then do mudra while placing yourself for the next attack will take a bit more than simply continue a combo like with the monk or the dragoon.

i'm talking of mutilate and shadow fang's dot (dancing edge it's a debuff), mutilate with the later passive go up to 30 second and are a skill you can throw outside a combo, however shadow fang is a 18 second placed in a 2 skill combo, simply putting them at the same duration will ease the combo and make the cycle more fluid. you need to replace shadowfang alone and it mess up a bit the cycle. nothing unbearable, but if they want to make QoL improvement that one that can be more than welcome.

like i have said, without a controller, move while doing the mudra for be in the right position after will be a trouble for a lot of person. they will either scraps the ninjutsu (dumb) or prefer use a simple fuma shuriken, especially if we end with a tedious positional fighting style close of the monk, like yoshida was trying to say while the live letter. indeed we can place ourself at the edge of the flank next to the rear position, but depending of the size of the monster it can be complicate to maintain this position.

so far the dps of the ninja are nice and smooth, even with the mudra lag, because we are not impacted by the position of the monster. but with the positional fighting style it will not be the same.

Nope but Greased Lightning falls off sometimes. . . and that sucks.

that not revelant, it's a trouble of mechanic of fight or your own inexperience that can lead to the loose of greese lightning, but that not the case with the mudra, how many time did the lag have mess a ninjutsu? a lot.
thanks god it don't happend to me too often but it can be quite annoying when you launch your first sign, then do the second for discover that the first sign was not counted.

your grease lightning will fall because you move away from the boss mostly, here that not the case, simply do your input can lead to loose, grease lightning mechanic are punishing, that a given, but it's not because of the lag or such, it's because they have design fight that force you to be away of the monster for long enough that it lead you too loose it.
by the way, they did plan to add chakra for this.... then...

[Adire]

Going to the original topic though: how exactly is adding positionals taking away from the spirit of ninja? Personally I think its giving the class more of an appropriate feel (a highly mobile melee fighter with some fancy hand magic).

Part of what defined Ninja is the lack of positionals. The difficulty of playing NIN lies elsewhere. It's an alternative to the positional heavy play of monk. Adding positionals to old skills is making Ninja's foundations prior to Heavensward content much like what appeals to monk players, not what appealed to people like myself who chose NIN for similar reasons. I prefer managing timers and mudras and such far more than using frequent positionals, so I fell in love with NIN. To preserve this style of gameplay as an option is a good thing.

Not only that, but now NIN will have positionals AND the difficulty it already has, plus the difficulty of using new skills that come with Heavensward and whatever new concepts that add to the job. None of the other classes are becoming like other classes in the way that NIN is becoming like monk. The way NIN is becoming more monk-like is particularly wrong because it's old skills that are being changed.

Choice is out the window, there is no longer a melee class that has its difficulties almost purely from another source than positionals. DRG possibly, but most of DRG's positionals were removed, not added, so it's a different case. Rather than purely give new concepts to NIN with new abilities like the rest of the jobs are getting, we're just getting the good old positionals slapped onto our already existing skills. Underwhelming, and not to mention questionable in design.

I've been saying this for a while now and I'll say it again. If anything, they should only be adding to NIN's abilities, not "changing" old abilities. Adding more mudra combinations, more DoTs to keep up, more timers to manage.

That would preserve what appeals to people who enjoy playing the job and dealing with that type of difficulty more than with positionals. Instead of getting more new skills with new concepts in Heavensward, it looks like we're getting our "new concepts" on old skills and more of the same concepts with new skills in Heavensward. The exact opposite of what is happening with other classes. And if we do get new concepts in Heavensward with new abilities, we will then have to balance what already gives NIN it's style (timer management, mudras, etc), we will have to learn to play more like monk with our old skills (problematic for obvious reasons. We will have to re-learn how to use our old-skills and part of what makes the job appeal and be special will be gone), and we will have to learn the new stuff as well.

Edit: And I have to say I don't really agree with making NINs have to dance around a lot to hit on different sides making it have more of a ninja feel. A ninja is going to be as stealthy as the situation allows. If exposed and allowed, the rear approach is the deadliest for someone who is trained as a ninja, for someone who is sneaky and stealthy. The concepts of backstabs come from this. With that said, there's really no sense in giving a ninja enhanced damage for attacking the front or sides vs the rear.

[SDaemon]

snip

Wait what does playing with a controller have to do with this? It is like you are grasping for something to change the focus of the issue. You can easily and reliably move with your mouse and keys while still performing mudra and combos.

Figured, not sure why you called them a poison, rather confusing. At first I thought you were referring to out dps buffs which made little sense. I rather like SF's 18s CD is flows rather well when going through the motions. Though I suppose it would trade off with more AE usage.

How will they not be as smooth? At present I move freely and frequently of my own violation and it doesn't impact me at all. Now I will simply move to a spot for a specific skill use instead of moving to that same spot for the fun of it.

You brought up the controller thing twice, you are really underestimating mouse/keyboard players with that.

[IveraIvalice]

Fix Mudra lag, don't make something that doesn't work right. It completely kills the job for me

[Kuroyasha]

Still gonna do big dmg.

Dont have to cast huton as much anymore + weaponskills extending huton effect = less 3 button casts = way more dps

Still got TA + Goad

Still haven't seen all the abilities NIN will have in 3.0 nor traits

NIN will be alright. NIN will definitely not die. Oh no u have to move 2-3 steps to activate flank omergeerrrrd. Come on now.

[silentwindfr]

we know how it will work, Yoshida did say it himself.... the jobs will be based around positional, because it fit the jobs. but answer me this, why they haven't done this from the start? i means the jobs like they have said have come out recently, why add positional (not to the new skill only but all the skill we have) was not done from the start? the jobs was added 6 month ago... what did change? more why change it now?

you can't expect that player that did choose a playstyle to be happy to see them job have this sort of drastic change, that will totally change the feeling of the jobs.
because them reason is: "we need to add flank and rear attack because the tank are the one that fight from front."
when it's irrevelant... it simply means that ninja can fight wherever he attack. and don't need to exploit weakness for get the jobs done. not that it fight from front. or they need to explain me this:
- sneak attack: Delivers an attack with a potency of 100/300.
300/500 when executed in front of target.
Can only be executed when under the effect of Hide or Suiton, and shares a recast timer with Trick Attack.

why put this sort of attack that recquire to be infront?

the truth is they have decided to add positional to the ninja, not because it deepen the jobs... but because they did lack any decent idea and did listen to a part of the community jealousing the ninja that had a gameplay different. then we get this, and i doubt any plea will work, because the one that was crying about this, will come here saying is normal to add positional, that will not break the jobs, it will be easy...

it don't change the fact that all of this is a bullshit. the ninja was simply destroyed. no evolution, no tons of new skill (because be serious you will get at best 5 new skill for 10 level, don't forget that we get passive too) and instead to bring new mechanic and offer a true feeling of progression into the power of the jobs.... we did receive a Quality of the Life content and drastic change that did modify how we did play the jobs for 6 month.

and you know the worst? i'm still excited by the expansion, all the rest is amazing... but this? is not different that split at the face of all the ninja player that did choose this jobs because it was different of monk and dragoon. and nothing that you can say, will change this fact! the feeling to be betrayed is there, it's why people are angry and displease by this announcement. they can even announce that we will get 10 new ninjutsu skill, people will still be displease, because the main appeal of the jobs is destroyed for them. if you can't admit this, it's better to pass your way and ignore this thread.

if you are not ok with the content of the op thread, don't like this, don't need to come here and try to defend the decision of Square-Enix, they don't need your help for continue to do it.

[SDaemon]

if you are not ok with the content of the op thread, don't like this, don't need to come here and try to defend the decision of Square-Enix, they don't need your help for continue to do it.

This is just...what? LOL

[silentwindfr]

This is just...what? LOL

if the people against positional are not a lot, the subject will fall and will be forgotten fast, no?
all it do so far is keeping a subject up and create tension over a subject that will anyway divide the community.

because let's be honest, this plea will change nothing and if you look at it, only 39 like... then nothing will change.