[plea] please fix Mudra Lag first, plus please reconsider added positionals for NIN

[LTEvil]

I personally just wanted a more interactive dps. Since smn was so completely disregarded in fcob gear stating. All the other ones are so basic it makes me bored. But nin has options. As the fight progresses you have to use judgment. Should I use trick now on baha at 54% can we push? Should I put doton down for gusts do we need. Should I de pain Will it matter in time? Even gaod is a mini guessing game unless someone asks. This is happening while we do rotation. That's why I like nin. Everyone has interaction yes. But I feel nin has the most.

I'm indifferent towards positional stuff. Is it a bother yes. Will it ruin nin. Not at all.

[elemental10]

It's a bit of a learning curve yes, but SOMEONE out there will figure out the optimal rotation.

Besides, I think the positionals will be some sort of potency bonus, that's all.

[Nexxus]

I think the positionals will be some sort of potency bonus, that's all.

Translated to: The new standard ^^.

[Riepah]

Positionals don't bother me too much, I'll be able to deal with them just fine, but I completely agree that it makes little sense to make NIN more like MNK and DRG. What's the point? If everyone deals with positioning, but only NIN has to deal with mudra lag and supporting others with Goad, when we can't even see their TP in the first place, and now get to babysit their enmity generation as well, then why shouldn't we just switch to MNK? Positionals, check, no mudra lag, check, highest DPS, check, don't have to help with invisible TP bars, check, getting a new, awesome sounding mechanic with Heavensward, check. What does Ninja get? Have to recast Fuuton less often, which means you can use Raiton more. Whoopdeedoo.

[ToppeHatte]

I posted earlier and after thinking about it I do think that MNK is pretty much the cause of the feelings, lol. Quiiiiiiiite a few NIN players, myself included, retired from MNK to change jobs since NIN was "well here's something like MNK, but instead of positionals you get more utility!" and that was appealing. Now MNK gets more self-sustaining utility, which plays into their fluid combat, whereas NIN gets MNK's positionals, which will do nothing but make a clunky job even clunkier. There's really no REAL reason to play NIN now if you originally moved to it from MNK. I'll probably be picking up MCH, and then returning to MNK for my ranged/melee combo. Us MNK retirees are definitely OKAY with positionals, but only on a job that was actually built around them instead of hamhandedly slapped on random abilities.

[Tiggy]

Big difference here. None of the other classes are having potentially hugely gamechanging changes made to existing skills. Other classes are getting new concepts added with new abilities. NIN is getting old abilities changed after this entire time. How would other players feel if existing skills were suddenly changed in their job in such a way?

Did you completely miss what happened to BLM? The rotation is changing completely. So based on what info we have BLM is changing more fundamentally than Nin when it comes to huge game changing skills. What about Dragoon and it's new combo system? Your statement clearly flies in the face of blatant game changers that actually were announced for several other jobs. So quite simply put you're incorrect to sit here and ASSUME based on so little information that the full rotations of other jobs aren't changing. It's also an ASSUMPTION that the full Nin rotation is completely changing based on nothing more than the word "positional."

All this outrage when you clearly aren't paying any attention to what was happening to the rest of the jobs. ALL the jobs are changing. Every. Single. One.

Also, it does mean something. Yoshida and team have stressed their feelings that NIN did not need "drastic changes". Few calls have been made with claims that "NIN is too easy" on the part of the community as well. That's because NIN's difficulty and appeal lies elsewhere other than in positionals to many. It was even said during the recent live letter that NIN did not need drastic changes, though adding positionals to existing skills is, in the eyes of many, indeed a drastic change.

And as others have mentioned, NIN currently is not a job that would do well with positionals for various reasons. My friend is a very skilled MNK main and even agrees that NIN will be extremely clunky if rapid use of positioning is required.

You have NO IDEA what the changes are. You don't even know how drastic they are. You don't know if they make the job tougher. YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL. All you know was the word positional was spoken. You have zero context for what that means or how that will be applied. As far as you know the positional means to stand right on the back of the enemy where you're standing most of the time anyway making it entirely pointless to even care about it. You don't have any idea what you're talking about at all.

This all aside from the fact that every single job is getting drastic changes anyway.

[Adire]

False. But in your defense many of those job users are wailing and gnashing their teeth as well. Go check it out if you don't believe me, NIN is not the only job which is getting big changes.

And seriously, the very nature of MMO's is an ever-evolving environment that by necessity get shaken up regularly. Shake-up, assess, adjust, assess, shake-up, assess, etc. It is not a new prgression by any means. MMO devs have been doing it since the 90's.



As long as the greater bulk of the positioning relies solely on the NIN, there really shouldn't be a problem unless said NIN just blows.

Not false. Please note where I said "Other classes are getting new concepts added with new abilities." NIN is the only class having changes made to current skills themselves. See this thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...t-Thread/page2

Did you completely miss what happened to BLM? The rotation is changing completely. So based on what info we have BLM is changing more fundamentally than Nin when it comes to huge game changing skills. What about Dragoon and it's new combo system? Your statement clearly flies in the face of blatant game changers that actually were announced for several other jobs. So quite simply put you're incorrect to sit here and ASSUME based on so little information that the full rotations of other jobs aren't changing. It's also an ASSUMPTION that the full Nin rotation is completely changing based on nothing more than the word "positional."

All this outrage when you clearly aren't paying any attention to what was happening to the rest of the jobs. ALL the jobs are changing. Every. Single. One.



You have NO IDEA what the changes are. You don't even know how drastic they are. You don't know if they make the job tougher. YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING AT ALL. All you know was the word positional was spoken. You have zero context for what that means or how that will be applied. As far as you know the positional means to stand right on the back of the enemy where you're standing most of the time anyway making it entirely pointless to even care about it. You don't have any idea what you're talking about at all.

This all aside from the fact that every single job is getting drastic changes anyway.

I do actually know what I'm talking about, thank you for your concern. Please note what I just said to Spiritreaver1217, and please note the thread I linked for them.

The word positional means just that; that Ninja is becoming an increasingly positional oriented job. It was also said by Yoshida during the live letter that Ninjas will no longer be able to stay on the rear most of the fight. Or more specifically, he said that Ninjas currently do not have to move enough so positionals will be added. Does this really say anything to you other than "Ninjas are going to have a lot more positionals now"?

Why would he feel the need to say that Ninjas will have to move more because they don't have to enough now if he was going to just make positionals be rear based? I find your take on this to be quite odd and without substance.

All jobs are changing via NEW skills, however the old skills are not going to be completely irrelevant and remain unchanged. NIN however is having its old skills changed in a way that will potentially make its gameplay very different on top of having to learn whatever new concepts come with the new skills.

There is a huge, huge, huge difference between getting people to learn how to do new things with new skills but keeping the base gameplay of a job intact, and changing the foundation of a job so that it's substantially different from how it was and making it like another job AND adding new concepts with new skills in addition to that.

It's like building every job as a Jenga tower. Most jobs already have the foundations laid out and established, and are getting new blocks added to the top. With NIN, it's like the bottom blocks are being removed and making the tower have to be rebuilt, then having to play catchup as well with the new blocks that need to be added. That's a problem, as is job homogenization, which is affecting NIN more than any other job in my belief at this point.

And no, I did not miss what is happening with BLM. What is happening with BLM is not the same thing happening with NIN though. BLMs are getting new skills to bring in new concepts and new rotations. NIN is having long established skills suddenly changed. Big difference.

[Aethaeryn]

All this outrage

Where's the 'outrage' in this thread? People are hoping SE will reconsider the decision to throw positionals on ninja because it will make the job feel even more clunky than it already does with mudra lag. A lot of people went with ninja specifically because of the lack of positionals. I mentioned in a previous post in this thread that I chose it because it's easier on my bad wrist than monk. Dragoon isn't too bad either as it currently is, but if ninja becomes 2.0 monk + mudras, I won't be able to play it anymore. Obviously I have no idea what the exact details will be, but if people don't post here expressing concerns, SE will think everything is fine.

The only person here outraged is you with your OMGZ YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN!!!111 CALM DOWN!!! Everyone here has as much right to voice their concerns with incoming changes as you do to defend every decision the devs make with the direction of this game. That's why it's called General Discussion. Maybe you're right and the most NIN will have to worry about is flank on Shadow Fang and rear on Dancing Edge. Until we know for sure, people are going to worry about it and want to talk about it.

[Evangela]

if you don't want to mess up your mudra you need to listen to the sound effects. every step of mudra has 2 sound effects, one when you press the button and another one when the mudra actually applied to your character, listen to the second sound effect before pressing next button.

[Evangela]

one more thing: it's not "mudra lag", it's your internet lag.