The whole Summoner "has been re-worked" is sad

[Havenae]

A reskin won't change mechanics or abilities. Will it change the look, animations, possibly do something g like switch fire stacks to ice stacks or something? Sure.

What it won't do is give you anything different. So let's say you got Shiva and reskinned summon 2 with her, you can bet you'll get the same functionality out of the egi that you would have if it was the default garuda.

So take your eye roll and pause for a second, look around d in the back of your head and see if you can't find your brains.

[RiceisNice]

...

Isn't Summoner more-or-less using the lost Allagan Arts. Last I remember, the Allagans were pretty advanced to the point that they enslaved the entire Island of Merycidia, pretty much one-shotted Bahamut, put him in Dalamud and used that as a power source?

[AdamFyi]

What it won't do is give you anything different.

This was already done with the Emerald and Topaz Carbuncles when replaced with Titan and Garuda-Egi, yet I don't see anyone complaining about the functions being reskins. Hell, a lot of players were even asking to get the Carbuncles back because they preferred how they look over the other two, and not because of functionality.

[Lemuria]

Yeah. It's so OBVIOUS that if we can glamour Ifrit into Shiva, she will still use fire attacks... :eyeroll:

Um... yeah, actually it is. If it's a reskin, like they said, then abilities will be unaffected. This is pretty much knowledge 101. I'm really not sure how much more obvious it could be. Perhaps a giant glowing neon sign is in order. Or perhaps the fact that the ONLY reskin they've mentioned by name is the original Carbuncles which have the same basic abilties as their summoner counterparts, albeit subtly altered.

This was already done with the Emerald and Topaz Carbuncles when replaced with Titan and Garuda-Egi, yet I don't see anyone complaining about the functions being reskins. Hell, a lot of players were even asking to get the Carbuncles back because they preferred how they look over the other two, and not because of functionality.

You're just dancing around the argument he presented, which was that it doesn't actually CHANGE anything. This is a level cap rise, so people had certain expectations which haven't been met. People wanted (and half-expected) new summons which won't be delivered and instead get a reskin as an afterthought.

As for your point regarding Summons skills, they ARE actually different from their Arcanist counterparts. Albeit, subtly. There's a rename and a new icon across the board (Shining Topaz becomes Mountain Buster, for example), and some of the potencies change. Aerial Slash dealing 90 potency versus 80 potency on Carbuncle's Downburst. The overall effects are the same, but that there are some changes is likely why there wasn't an outcry at the time.

[AdamFyi]

This is a level cap rise, so people had certain expectations which haven't been met. People wanted (and half-expected) new summons which won't be delivered and instead get a reskin as an afterthought.

It was just an idea for the developers at the time. New summons will only present more problems with players shifting towards one pet and ignoring the rest, which is why the idea was scrapped altogether. Balancing three pets is much easier than eight. As far as they have said, some of the older skills for all the jobs are going to be adjusted (such as Conjurer's Protect now giving the full buff when cross-classed), but they did not mention much about them. Everything is just speculation and everyone's just jumping the gun when we have literally no information about the reworks.

As for your point regarding Summons skills, they ARE actually different from their Arcanist counterparts. Albeit, subtly.

Keyword: Functions. Increased potency does not change the way they function. Name and damage may be different, but the function stays the same.

[Havenae]

This was already done with the Emerald and Topaz Carbuncles when replaced with Titan and Garuda-Egi, yet I don't see anyone complaining about the functions being reskins. Hell, a lot of players were even asking to get the Carbuncles back because they preferred how they look over the other two, and not because of functionality.

It changed because it's an entirely different spell with its own summon, not a reskin.

Trust me. I'd like the ability to summon carbuncle as a summon as well because I too liked the look. But I also want there to be a functional reason to have multiple summons, not just different skins for the same base.

I can't say I completely dislike the foundation of the idea here. It's something g similar to what I suggested a while back on the dps forums. And that was to do away with idividual spells and just give summoners an interface kind of like how you choose minions or mounts and wire summons to 1-3 spells. But in this idea I would have included signature abilities or themes per summon. I wouldn't expect that if I pulled leviathan in in place of say garuda that their main function would both be to simply extend dot durations. I'd expect garuda to do that while I'd expect leviathan to do something else.

What they're talking about now I'm not going g to hold my breath that it's anything more than an aesthetic change and nothing more. Which is selling the job short.

What this is.. Is a lazy easy way out for SE. Which I can't say I'm surprised.

[AdamFyi]

It changed because it's an entirely different spell with its own summon, not a reskin.

By that logic, a potency increase, name change, and animation change makes it an entirely different ability. Wat. ಠ_ಠ
The basic function of the abilities stay the same. One single-target, one AoE, one knockback, and one buff extension. The function pretty much stays the same between both pets. So, I'll retaliate by quoting what you said:

A reskin won't change mechanics or abilities. Will it change the look, animations, possibly do something g like switch fire stacks to ice stacks or something? Sure.

What it won't do is give you anything different. So let's say you got Shiva and reskinned summon 2 with her, you can bet you'll get the same functionality out of the egi that you would have if it was the default garuda.

Edit:

But in this idea I would have included signature abilities or themes per summon. I wouldn't expect that if I pulled leviathan in in place of say garuda that their main function would both be to simply extend dot durations. I'd expect garuda to do that while I'd expect leviathan to do something else.

What they're talking about now I'm not going g to hold my breath that it's anything more than an aesthetic change and nothing more. Which is selling the job short.

There is a good chance that glamouring over the pets will give them their own signature ability when used with Enkindle. However, it's still far too early to come to any conclusions. We barely have any information to go on as it is right now.

[Yukiko]

(..) glamouring over the pets will give them their own signature ability when used with Enkindle. (..)

Just tell me: when do you use titan-egi special skill?
Even if we will get what you are suggesting, i am not looking forward to it...

[Valoiz]

Just tell me: when do you use titan-egi special skill?
Even if we will get what you are suggesting, i am not looking forward to it...

Doing big pulls in dungeons (when i am tanking) to hold agro agains for example BRDs or SMNs AoE (usually still not enough for BLM) ?

[AdamFyi]

Just tell me: when do you use titan-egi special skill?
Even if we will get what you are suggesting, i am not looking forward to it...

As in their signature attack with different unique functions; not just reskinned effects. Again, we literally have no information to go on, so you're just getting your panties in a knot for no reason. Drawing conclusions right now as it is, is pretty silly.