The Chosen One (misc minor spoilers)

[WyrahFhurrst]

Might have been a large cache of soul stones were found then. The only special thing with the PC as a summoner would be we have one advantage when fighting them. Shoot, I'd be curious what would happen if one gave a summoner soul stone to a Company of Heroes arcanist, would they be able to summon Titan and Leviathan egi then? And the other summoners were mentioned as being murdered by someone during the questline, you become that someone's target eventually iirc.

And then the Ascian uses those other Summoners' soulstones to give Trystan(sp?) the ability to summon Belias-Egi.

[lilirulu]

There were no other summoners killed during the storyline it was Sons of Saint Concaich researchers who were killed and the soulstones they had dug up that were taken. The ability to summon Belias-Egi was given to Tristan by the Ascian drawing the memories of allagan summoners from the soulstone.

I'd also think it's kind of important to note that Arcanism isn't something just anyone can pick up and was prior to Merlwyb revitalizing it a dying art (so unlike like many of the other classes/job probably doesn't have as many practitioners). You need to be able to understand the complex arcane geometries and mathematics and finally on-top of all of that actually control your Carbuncle (which as we've seen time and time again is no easy feat).

[Samcaesar]

Snip

Ooh yeah, just read up on it. I mean, even then, Tristan was still able to summon, I doubt the Ascians somehow game him the ability to summon things, just summon Belias-Egi Assuming someone is skilled enough to defeat primals and understand Arcanism, they'd probably be able to summon as we can.

[Belhi]

Ooh yeah, just read up on it. I mean, even then, Tristan was still able to summon, I doubt the Ascians somehow game him the ability to summon things, just summon Belias-Egi Assuming someone is skilled enough to defeat primals and understand Arcanism, they'd probably be able to summon as we can.

Until the end Tristan only ever summoned Ifrit which was a primal he was involved in defeating before. He was previously an Immortal Flame who had to kill his brother when they were sent to defeat Ifrit and he tempered Tristan's brother. Its worth noting that Primals have been downed before by others apart from the Company of Heroes and the WoL. Its just very costly in lives.

At the end it is the Ascian that gives Tristan the ability to use Belias-Egi by basically forcing the ability out of the other summoner soul stones and bestowing it on Tristan.

[Samcaesar]

Hmm, it makes me a little curious exactly what does it mean to "defeat a primal" though, could already trained summoners basically make more by having harsh training with a summoner's Ifrit Egi (As Egis are basically just the essence of the primal, refined and controlled)? Surely there must be some way to provide summoner training to others as well, I doubt every summoner in Allag was fight with primals, as that really doesn't seem too feasible unless if they had help from some Primal buster like Ultima.

[lilirulu]

Considering the events of the Ifrit Arc (and to some extent the Haukke Manor and (2.3) TtM) I'd say it's likely that if Tristan wasn't already a ACN then the Ascian probably trained or "gifted" him with the skill. He did give him a grimoire and a fancy robe too. I have a theory that the art of summoning regardless of it's it the Scholarly Arts, Allagan Summoning, or Arcanism were either invented or influenced by the Ascians.

I figure (so I have no proof until SE says one way or another) an egi wouldn't be enough to truly summon the primal because you'd be using what is essentially an copy of a copy so it'd probably be much weaker if you're able to absorb the essence at all. I think the reason why Belias-Egi looks like Ifrit isn't because he is and older incarnation of Ifrit was because Ifrit was being used as a "base" to maintain the power of Belias (or atleast I think that'd be a good cover if SE ever wanted to use Belias again as a primal fight c).

I, also, do not remember if it was stated you need to actually defeat the actual primal or just be around during the demise of the primal to absorb the essence. The only thing we know you need to defeat is the Egi. I can't check atm but if I do between now and the morning I'll update my post.

[Alberel]

Considering the events of the Ifrit Arc (and to some extent the Haukke Manor and (2.3) TtM) I'd say it's likely that if Tristan wasn't already a ACN then the Ascian probably trained or "gifted" him with the skill. He did give him a grimoire and a fancy robe too. I have a theory that the art of summoning regardless of it's it the Scholarly Arts, Allagan Summoning, or Arcanism were either invented or influenced by the Ascians.

I figure (so I have no proof until SE says one way or another) an egi wouldn't be enough to truly summon the primal because you'd be using what is essentially an copy of a copy so it'd probably be much weaker if you're able to absorb the essence at all. I think the reason why Belias-Egi looks like Ifrit isn't because he is and older incarnation of Ifrit was because Ifrit was being used as a "base" to maintain the power of Belias (or atleast I think that'd be a good cover if SE ever wanted to use Belias again as a primal fight c).

I, also, do not remember if it was stated you need to actually defeat the actual primal or just be around during the demise of the primal to absorb the essence. The only thing we know you need to defeat is the Egi. I can't check atm but if I do between now and the morning I'll update my post.

IIRC it was the Meracydians that first developed summoning and the Allagans adapted it from them after using Ultima Weapon and Omega to put down their primals during their genocidal invasion. Whether the Ascians had any hand in that we don't know yet but it does seem that summoning benefits their cause in some way considering how they deliberately lure others into performing the rituals.

When learning to summon by defeating a primal, I always interpreted it as an attunement to that primal's aether as it returns to the lifestream. You wouldn't necessarily need to strike the killing blow but you would need to be there and close enough for the aether to pass through you when the primal returned to the stream. From there it's just a matter of finding that aether again and calling upon it in just the right amount to manifest without losing control. Defeating the egi is more a demonstration of your willpower in binding it to your control once summoned.

As for the soulstones and the 'chosen one' thing we seem to have going, I believe that's caused by the Echo. If you recall the Echo allows direct communication between souls, which is how we can understand any language and see the memories of others. Since a soulstone by definition contains a soul it seems appropriate that we can communicate with the soul inside the stone in a way that others can't, allowing us to attune to it and learn far more from it than any other. This also makes a great deal of sense regarding the Ascian's use of multiple Summoner soulstones to draw on the power of Belias as we know that Ascians are advanced Echo users.

[WyrahFhurrst]

IIRC it was the Meracydians that first developed summoning and the Allagans adapted it from them after using Ultima Weapon and Omega to put down their primals during their genocidal invasion. Whether the Ascians had any hand in that we don't know yet but it does seem that summoning benefits their cause in some way considering how they deliberately lure others into performing the rituals.

We're never told who actually invented summoning, just that when the Allagans began invading, the Beast Tribes summoned their Primals in order to fight back. The Meracydians were among the Beast Tribes that did perform summonings, but weren't the only group who did, and weren't necessarily the inventors of the ritual.

[Zohar_Lahar]

Considering Bahamut is apparently going to be a theme in new SMN job skills, that statement about it originating in Meracydia might not be far off.

[Wolfandre]

Don't forget about the soul stones themselves. They are crystals, and if anything in FF has taught us, is that crystals hold immense power. There are also multiple crystals for each job with the memories of the past holders.

I mentioned this in an old thread, but we're adventurers, not white mages, not bards, etc. We use the jobs as a means to an end, but they are exactly as their title explains: jobs. Vocations. Since our vocation is Adventurer, we don't have the time to invest into learning every ritual, every song, every technique. We just need something that works and that will keep us alive.

So we cheat. The soul stones give us the memories and powers of the <job>s of the past, not the Echo. If it did, we would have access to those powers all the time instead of just when we hold the soul stone. It's for this reason that there is always someone better at our job than us: they actually devoted their lives to their craft while we just...cheat.

EDIT: Sorry for the necrobump! hehe...