My horrific experience with a master craft recipe

[GenJoe]

It's amusing how many people refuse to go into 4 star crafting because of "horror stories" told to them by OTHER PEOPLE...

Can you sometimes lose a million or two while leveling up crafting? Sure, but in the grand scheme of things, what's a million or two when your gear and melds cost tens of millions? It's chump change, if the money's tight, then you just gotta make some more until you're comfortable risking a loss.

Besides, this mentality of "I must be a 4 star crafter to make money" is simply wrong. 4 star crafts are DOMINATED by people that have been doing for months before you ever got there, and they can be fierce, even willing to take a loss just to get you out of the market. Don't go swimming with the sharks, there's not enough money to be had.

If you're crafting to make gil, look at easy to craft items that you can sell in bulks, don't sit on an artisan's apron for 3 days to make a 1m profit, Just make 3 stacks of items that bring in 3500 profit each, there's your million and if you picked the right item, you should be able to sell way more than just 3 stacks in a 3 day period.

You can even expand your wares by finding similar items and selling stacks upon stacks of them, easy to dominate market, perhaps time consuming with all the crafting you have to do, but in the end, you don't have to babysit the MB as much, just list it and give it a few days.

[Chihaya]

-stuff-

Well, tbh... it is these type of mentality that keeps alot of us crafters profitable. People not willing to learn the system or think it is too hard/too much rng related are kept out of the crafting scene.
There won't be much profits made if everyone can make their own thing, guaranteed HQ etc.

Though I am wondering if the specialist crafting will change the scene at all, I have an alt prepped up but that's still only 6/8 specialist since I heard you can only specialize 3?

[Nalien]

Though I am wondering if the specialist crafting will change the scene at all, I have an alt prepped up but that's still only 6/8 specialist since I heard you can only specialize 3?

The way they've talked about it made me think Specialists was just a way for someone to be able to craft on, lets say Culinarian, as well as everyone else without having to level everything. I think they mentioned that they didn't like how to be the best crafter you needed to invest in leveling everything up (dem lv50 skills), so that's why they're adding the Specialist system.

I could be mistaken of course, but it didn't sound like the system was in place to force players to specialize and create alts to do everything. Just there so more people can attempt high-tier recipes without leveling everything (though why people find leveling crafts so daunting is beyond me, Levequests trivialized it...).

[Elusana_Celah]

It's really not enough to load up a crafting guide and follow the steps blindly if you don't understand what you're crafting. There are some weird elements in your story (Failing Piece by Piece? Running out of durability without having the CP to use Reclaim?) that suggest that you're not really considering the full effect each crafting step is having on your overall synth. When you're trying to end-game craft, each of these tiny mistakes can cost you the entire synthesis and millions in gil, and that's completely separate from RNG.

While I appreciate your advice, I have been crafting since January and have a really skilled crafter friend who has helped me since. He has 4 crafts at 4 star with the master book and I sat next to him as he got his 5th 4 star book "Alchemist" I watched him spend 600k gil failing that master craft recipe.

I really didn't want to keep ranting in my post every single line by line step I went through for all 10 crafts would you really have wanted to see that?

I took risks praying on at least 2 more tricks proc to try to push out a couple more IQ stacks and condition. 2 more tricks procs would have spared me the failed synthesis. The alternative would have been to hit reclaim and fail the synthesis and pray I get my crap back or try to push out some more quality and wrap up the synthesis so I could at least have a 50% chance of grabbing it at HQ instead of a 25-28% chance. I took a lot of consideration. I sat there staring at my monitor deciding on what I should do next. I didn't just randomly follow a rotation, the rotation was used as a guide so I could better understand the synthesis process. Moreover, whenever I noticed I had an overage of CP due to extra tricks procs I would throw in basic touch over hasty which guarantees a stack increase.

You can't EVER avoid the RNG that comes from those monstrous master 3 star recipes. It would be a "relief" for people to hear that I am simply overexaggerating or I am an idiot but unfortunately I am not.

Now let me make another thing clear: I have a 100% HQ 1-2 star rotation and a 95% HQ chance with 3 star (that 5% chance to fail is when I quite literally hit rock bottom luck it's like the game hates me lol), these were all rotations I taught myself through experimentation using cooking because some of those cooking recipes use cheap ingredients I can mess around with the recipes without huge gil loss.

The RNG hells come from specific 4 star rotations and the 3 star master book recipes, like my pro crafter friend apparently failed 2 Kirimu's and didn't log on for a week after. I mean when no one is going to buy your item unless it's HQ (depends on the item btw), you are faced with 2 choices: Hit reclaim and fail out hoping to get your stuff back, or try to push out as much condition as you can and finish the synthesis and hope that you get it HQ without a high condition %.

Depending on the craft, you can only negate luck so far because you only have so much CP to work with so those "free" skills are necessary at points.

-- You start a craft.
-- You know how much CP you will need to perform your Byregot's limit break at the end with full control buffs on yourself as well as Ingenuity II if needed.
-- You plan each CP using move to make sure you can complete your Byregot's and finish your synthesis. Careless CP use will lead to a botched synthesis or unable to perform your quality limit break.
-- You compensate for RNG-based blunders by trying to sneak in Basic Touch and/or manipulation to squeeze out more turns.
-- You use your CP overage to use basic touch and, if you have 10 or 11 stacks already, use your overage in CP to try to wait out a condition change before using Byregot's.

How can this go wrong?

Ok so you're working on a 4 star craft that has around 5900 quality to HQ it and increases in progress and quality are less than your 3 and 2 star friends. You are doing your Comfort Zone and IQ to start... , no tricks procs... ok whatever so you hit steady hands II and waste not, start doing some basic touch... 5 basic touch = 90 CP. Steady Hands II = 25 CP, Waste Not I = 56 CP, 5 Basic Touch = 90 CP, well you've just waved goodbye to 157 CP, Comfort Zone gave you 14...

You started with 395:

You're now at 238, you saw one tricks of the trade proc throughout all of that because RNGesus has condemned you to hell.

258 CP now.

You have 55 progress left.

You hit Steady Hands II:

Basic Touch x 5 (Please RNGesus give me a tricks proc)... none

OOPS you're now at 168 CP, your IQ stacks are at 10 though yay... ok so you hit Manipulation, Great Strides, no condition change... you are at 48 CP... you use Innovation as a filler... no condition change. OK shit... you take the Byregot's which takes you somewhere around 50-60% quality and now you're at 25 progress with 3 turns left and no CP...

At this point you realized you forgot your progress OOPS LOL shit! You used 180 CP on guaranteeing a quality increase. This is why for the high-end recipes you can't just use all your CP on avoiding the RNG of hasty or even rapid synthesis in some cases.

Now if you mix your hasty touch with basic touch you give yourself a greater chance of succeeding because you are saving a lot of CP. But ultimately if you start failing those hasty touches (which someone like me will fail them... a lot) you can at least finish your synthesis but you'll be at 50-60% HQ or much lower.

With good gear, 2 and 3 star can be completed with minimum RNG, I still mix some hasty in with my 3 star but my condition is usually 70% or higher if the hasties do fail which can still give me an HQ sometimes.

I only went on this rant because people assume that I have no idea what I'm doing or that I don't take consideration in what is going on when I craft but I do. The fact of the matter is that if RNG isn't on your side, HQing that item likely isn't going to happen, moreso those monster 3 star recipes. (Calibrated Rose Gold Cog, Rich Tomato Relish yata yata). I ain't going to be convinced by anyone that crafting is all skill and no RNG. All you can influence is utilizing proper decision making during your craft to minimize how much RNG you need to deal with but it'll always be there... always.

[RiceisNice]

While I appreciate your advice, I have been crafting since January and have a really skilled crafter friend who has helped me since. He has 4 crafts at 4 star with the master book and I sat next to him as he got his 5th 4 star book "Alchemist" I watched him spend 600k gil failing that master craft recipe.

This really doesn't seem to be the case if you're failing PbP because you didn't use SHII. A wasted step on something that costs CP is a huge loss compared to using SHII steps for PbP, esp since you;re using comfort zone and you want to prolong your craft as long as possible to benefit from it.

You can't EVER avoid the RNG that comes from those monstrous master 3 star recipes. It would be a "relief" for people to hear that I am simply overexaggerating or I am an idiot but unfortunately I am not.

Four stars is actually easier than the 3 star recipe books. If anything, it's more or less similiar to 3 star crafting. I mean even I'll admit that HQing for the recipe book is RNG, thats why you try to fish for it and cut your losses if you forecast a fail with reclaim.

The RNG hells come from specific 4 star rotations and the 3 star master book recipes, like my pro crafter friend apparently failed 2 Kirimu's and didn't log on for a week after. I mean when no one is going to buy your item unless it's HQ (depends on the item btw), you are faced with 2 choices: Hit reclaim and fail out hoping to get your stuff back, or try to push out as much condition as you can and finish the synthesis and hope that you get it HQ without a high condition %.

Read above with 4 stars being closer to 3 stars as far as difficulty/RNG is concerned. HQing materials like kirimu leather is a feat of its own...that's why you have other items that can be HQ'd when it comes to crafting those equipment (such as kirimu coat) And honestly, a kirimu leather is pretty low-profile crafting compared to an offhand or a piece of equipment that you can mass produce these to increase HQ yields anyway. If a crafter is going to quit because they got 2 NQ on materials whose starting quality cannot be boosted, then I'm sorry, but you really wouldn't have the nerves to get into high-end crafts, espesically if it was to provide for the FC or to make a business out of it.

At this point you realized you forgot your progress OOPS LOL shit! You used 180 CP on guaranteeing a quality increase. This is why for the high-end recipes you can't just use all your CP on avoiding the RNG of hasty or even rapid synthesis in some cases.

What kind of crafter gets themselves into this scenario? At that point you would've been better off cutting your losses with a reclaim if it was really that bad. I mean there's bad RNG, and there's butting your head straight into a failed craft.

Now if you mix your hasty touch with basic touch you give yourself a greater chance of succeeding because you are saving a lot of CP. But ultimately if you start failing those hasty touches (which someone like me will fail them... a lot) you can at least finish your synthesis but you'll be at 50-60% HQ or much lower.

From what I see, you're using basic touches whenever you can. The problem is like you mentioned, you're expending so much CP.

If you're trying to HQ from it, you'll benefit hugely from prolonging your craft as long as you can to increase the number of good conditions and to benefit from comfort zone. When I do my crafts, I always use hasty touch with SHII. This allows me to have enough CP over to prolong my step for a second comfort zone, one MMII, and a second MMII if I get 4 TotTs. This is over the course of 20+ steps, instead of being sub-15 steps because you run yourself out of CP.

[Chihaya]

You are stuck in the box too much, trying to follow some strict method - even that strict CP counting.
No one said RNG is not involved - without the RNG - crafting could be pointless if people can just pop HQ left and right 100% of the time.

There are many different ways to approach the 801 synths - the approach I do is that I will finish majority of the progress first before I work on the quality.
Another glaring problem is that your bregot's kill zone is 1 move too short with only innovation - you can fit another move in before greater strides ends.
For these 801 synths - unless you still need NQ for your supra - reclaim immediately if you can't get good or excellent during your bregot's or if you feel your IQ stack is too low.

Test out different methods, different ways, find which works the most - I don't even use waste not sometimes for these synths depending on the ToT. Nor do I burn CP on basic touch unless it is high IQ stacks with excellent condition. In most of my 801 synths I will pop at least 2 comfort zones, sometimes even 3 if I get lucky on ToT procs.

[Elusana_Celah]

What kind of crafter gets themselves into this scenario? At that point you would've been better off cutting your losses with a reclaim if it was really that bad. I mean there's bad RNG, and there's butting your head straight into a failed craft.

That was actually an example of how you can't just use strictly basic touch and not use hasty. Please don't take it so literally as to imply anyone would actually do that. I literally never use hasty unless Steady Hands II is up, I'm not retarded lol.

I agree the PbP without the SH is lame but meh. I would also like to mention that I once went 18 steps without seeing a tricks proc. When that happens, it's bad and you will be mad. It seems impossible for people to believe the luck I experience while crafting but my post was a huge wall of text to point out two things:

1: You can't HQ high-end crafts without hasty touch RNG.
2: You can't HQ high-end crafts without tricks of the trade procs.

Well, you can HQ them but the condition % will be very low so whether or not that HQs is also a RNG factor.

Keep in mind that any condition OR any skill used that is under 100% chance of success has a chance of failure. I've heard of people failing with 98% condition (which is a very rare scenario even for my bad luck, but it does happen).

With this in mind, it is possible for people who have been forsaken by RNGesus to experience a really bad time with crafting the most difficult recipes. (I mean the only reason I can do 3 star so good is because of gear allowing me to get away with using less RNG-based skills LOL yay!)

[Sylkis]

Your rotation must be wrong like the others have said.

And of course there will be RNG on hasty (tricks can be mitigated) otherwise it would be like 1 star crafting.

Instead of using all your Gil trying to craft a completed item, you should always practice on the cheapest synth before committing. Materials such as leathers and cloths are pretty cheap. Once you have a good rotation then you should be having the same amount of hq as your 3 stars.


The markets on my server are already flooded with hq 4 star, its no longer profitable to craft them.