Please do this SE.

[Amatsuhira]

I find more often than not the dps players are the problem. They attack early, don't use enmity reduction, fight mobs tanks not hitting so they can say look at my deeps! Or in raids like the towers they don't wait for tanks to be ready or to pull, then say why am i tanking X mob. Like you are such a beast you cant be contained. I don't fully blame players though as SE design promotes trolling from withing the group for anyone able to watch enmity meter while playing. it's like crack as they see it rise then they get all sullen when they don't get agro so they try to pull more and run ahead creating more work not for me but for your healer. If you want to tank i'll let you. but don't say i'm bad tank for pulling your card. And don't call us trolls because we rejoin the queue and get your sorry definition of what a group should be and how fast or slow it should move again.

One common theme seems to be players not liking each other or being indifferent to another players plight. It's very off putting. My favorite thing is the no bonus, exp only groups for every pf raid. Then you join and they are just as good/bad as DF. I can't put my finger on it but something about the games design has players hating on one another rather than needing each other desperatly to survive, like in a FF game where potions mattered and anyone could use phoenix down even in combat. Players use others as bait for fates to collect items and such. It's like too much WoW here.

What is it that has us at each others necks so often? it's not as simple as being jerks or kids or desperate for a drop or mad cuz can't raid or win them.. Something within this system has turned us against ourselves, it's fundamentally wrong somewhere at the core where a game is jsut supposed to be fun, but challenging enough that everyone can make a difference, not you got one guy who gets hit he dies so the raid should wipe because of it. Hell Ruby Weapon had to be fought solo. were is that creative thinking at? instead of timers and dps checks how about thought provoking systems like in other older RPG, where you could make a choice and if it was the wrong one it didn't spell doom it jsutu meant you had to work more into the fight after to win it. In some cases im all for one shots but not every friggin thing labeled "hard, or extreme" 1 shots aren't that extreme when 80% of mechanics are one shot mechanics that the entire group cant recover from. That's not extreme it's jsut bullshit. I could only imagine a timer on my Ruby Weapon fight after killing my group before hand i have to win in x amount of time. DPS checks and one shot kill moves on timers ir too much stress when the ilevels are just enough to qualify. Crafting gear and filling it with vit materia overmelds to survive while you have potions that are still useless isn't extreme it's short sighted.
I suggested a long time ago they add materia to the game but give it meaning like adding 200 points to invigorate or 3 seconds to oath. or making regen tick +10. or god forbid adding elemental attacks to weapons as replacement for damage or an added bonus. Crafting would welcome the chance to crack materia to take a +3 to 5. I'm just going to stop before i go too far. if i haven't already.
Good day and sorry to bother you all with my bs.

[Adire]

what about as a dps. how about the community just grows up, does the duty, then leaves and hopes they dont get the same people.

If you're kicked wrongfully as a DPS, then you don't have that benefit of the fast queue obviously. But given that most DPS know this, they are less likely to grief. They have more to lose from being kicked than tanks do.

If you're kicked wrongfully as a DPS, you probably don't want to be put back in with the group anyways. The tank and/or healer has to be involved in the DPS being kicked, and they can prevent you from completing the duty anyways if they want to.

As much as I agree with you and wish people would grow up, sometimes tanks do queue up with the sole intent to cause problems. And when they do, nothing can stop them really because of this system's design. People who do that only do it to get their laughs from causing other people problems, they don't care about completing the run.

I hear you, then I support this thread if they prevent a group of players joined a party together to vote kick (as they think they have the power in the party even tho they might be at fault), otherwise many people will be a victim and have their time wasted..

That is one possible solution, though I don't think disenfranchisement is the answer. If a party of three does a duty and gets a random, and that random is griefing and the party's votes are nullified, then the random person can stay in the duty against the wishes of 3 people.

Something needs to be done nonetheless. Tanks have instant queues many times and can harass and ruin dungeon runs single-handedly and evade the vote kick feature. In many cases, the people who vote you out aren't people you want to come back to anyways and aren't people who will get you a successful run either if they choose to stay.

Edit:

snip

If a DPS is intentionally griefing, they are only putting themselves at risk. They can be kicked and replaced immediately. A group who keeps a griefing DPS in the group is one that's very patient.

A tank however is not so easily replaced and is more often than not more crucial for a run's success in DF than an individual DPS is. If someone is only interested in griefing (such as in the run that inspired me to post this thread), queuing as tank or maybe healer is the smart thing to do. You are crucial and are not as easily replaced typically. Trying to grief as a DPS is a good way to get yourself kicked without second thought, as you are more expendable.

[Amatsuhira]

I agree that griefing is an issue and kicking can work when all randoms agree but my issues are with it's frequency and the fact that the current enmity system pits players against each other. The dps checks further the problem within the group dynamic because someone/anyone can claim parser numbers or "dps is low". I want to root out the cause of the cancer all together. I have been witness to and a part of greifing and it's a snowball effect. When the dps that are easy to kick turn into tanks or vice versa, what is our true goal and why has it come this?
If only i were smarter...Or better yet had opinions from people that care enough to sift through the bs to find common ground.
Certainly not as simple as good or bad players/community members. Is there fault at the core of something in the game i wonder?

[Riepah]

The kickvote system is near useless as long as the same people can keep rejoining the same duty in-progress.

[Tuathaa]

I find more often than not the dps players are the problem.

Coming from a pure dps perspective and having been trolled by tanks for watching cutscenes while leveling and for asking clarifications on mechanics I not only support this but would go even further to say if your kicked you get a 30min time out.

[Riepah]

Coming from a pure dps perspective and having been trolled by tanks for watching cutscenes while leveling and for asking clarifications on mechanics I not only support this but would go even further to say if your kicked you get a 30min time out.

No, this is a horrible idea. Too many wrongful kicks. Just leave it as it is now.

[Amatsuhira]

Coming from a pure dps perspective and having been trolled by tanks for watching cutscenes while leveling and for asking clarifications on mechanics I not only support this but would go even further to say if your kicked you get a 30min time out.

Something is causing players to take out anger/frustration on each other regardless of job. From my years playing this game i have seen tank troll, healer trolls, dps ones and even kicks before looting. Even players kick people after 1 attempt on a boss for afk or offline when clearly they are not.
Has to be a better way to keep more players happy with game and each other.

[Tuathaa]

No, this is a horrible idea. Too many wrongful kicks. Just leave it as it is now.

I have been wrongfully kicked more than once from watching cut scenes to back flipping of Titans rock (no guide ever mentioned ed that was a possibility) and had to redo a 45+min q. Bad tanks and healers need some form of repercussion for their actions.

[Lovescake]

Something is causing players to take out anger/frustration on each other regardless of job. From my years playing this game i have seen tank troll, healer trolls, dps ones and even kicks before looting. Even players kick people after 1 attempt on a boss for afk or offline when clearly they are not.
Has to be a better way to keep more players happy with game and each other.

how can you kick someone before loot?

when the chests are in the dungeon they cant be kicked.

[Raeletta]

how can you kick someone before loot?

when the chests are in the dungeon they cant be kicked.

No, they can be kicked until the chest is opened. I've had the window up ready to kick the moment the fight ends to get rid of... unpleasant party members who tried to not roll on loot so they could stick around. Usually the timer will fall off in the next boss, so a quick / determined person can kick in the window.
Inversely, unless I really want something, I don't roll on it till the last second just in case.