Jobs you feel yoshi and team got wrong

[Savvy]

Bard. What a joke.

[Galand]

Lets say Ive been a FF fan for years, and I knew nothing about this game. If I saw a list of spells and abilities, I would assume that we have some sort of poison mage.

The only thing about the Summoner class that screams Summoner is the AF gear, thats it.

I don't understand how they came up with this class from a design point of view at all.

Can someone also explain why when you become a big boy Summoner, you forget how to summon Carbuncle?

If they need a lore reason to let humanoids summon primals, Ultima/Omega weapon resurface and start eating the beast tribes and primals so they now ally with us to help defeat the weapons, bam you can thank me later SE.

[Shougun]

Funny thing...in games outside of Final Fantasy, Bards make decent archers. In fact it's only in the final fantasy games and ones not played well in other settings that the "squishy bard" stigma developed.
Why WOULDN'T a class that needs to sing take up the bow instead of the sword?

Old school bards are also good with daggers and swords. And crossbows. Pillars of Eternity has a bard that wields an arquebus. Imagine that.

6 party members walk into a bar, all equipped with an arquebus. . . Those were pretty OP at times lol.

I agree both to you and Kyuven that old school bards were not so singularly focused on music and capable in other matters, like living and fighting with other weapons lol. I'm in no way saying our bard now is unheard of in all fantasy, but that its just not very Final Fantasy like where while the Bards could wield many weapons their mechanical tool set was pretty focused on the theme of music and effects (and that is the change that I miss, even though I actually also very much like the DND bard). Good counter I suppose is that Bard is only 5 abilities, and actually do have a focus on songs but that seems to be a limitation of the class x job system, so now we're just talking about that lol (which 'appears' to be going away at least for the new jobs).

The music bard may require special consideration especially moving from single player to multiplayer but it is not 'untranslatable' to an mmo. I imagine you could have designed one to meet the current philosophy of the game and still be musical class (I've seen your fun class designs, and likes of other's), whether you would have wanted that or not.. fair enough- the old school DNDeqsue Bard does make more 'logical' sense lol.

To the question, Why would they not use something like a bow? Bow is fine :P, just the focus of ability allocation feels off for a FF game. I like my illogical preference, not that I'd ever consider unsubbing for it (the job actually finds a lot of uses in game, and the songs when used... lol, are useful)- I don't even play Bard I just didn't think it matches the old FF bard as well as it could have. "Staph then" ilu2 . Now, thanks to Duelle, I have a craving to replay a cRPG - time to find the beloved community patches.

[Kotemon]

My main gripe is Summoner/Scholar. After reading and seeing both jobs as well the stats and abilities from its base class. It should have been one or the other as a job or at the very least, they should have made a way to easily swap between the main stats of the two.

The only other thing is the names of the mage classes. Conjurer sounds more like an early Summoner. Thaumaturgy is in essence a Healer. While Arcanist in general is a craftsman who possesses knowledge of manufacturing secrets. It would make sense if it were linked to a Scholar. Assuming Scholar was instead the "class", it would summon golems or constructs along those lines if it were to function similar to a Summoner. Given the fanboy that's built into the game they should have linked Black mage to Wizard like it was in the first title.

[Niwashi]

The music bard may require special consideration especially moving from single player to multiplayer but it is not 'untranslatable' to an mmo.

LOTRO's Minstrel is closer to what I'd like to see for a Bard. They can equip both weapons and a musical instrument, but the majority of their attacks and other skills use their instrument rather than their weapons. I wouldn't mind a bow being the Bards' weapon, if it was just backup to music as their primary skill. Instead we have them as 99% archers who might occasionally strum a single musical note. That just isn't a musical enough focus to justify calling them Bards.

[Duelle]

I'm in no way saying our bard now is unheard of in all fantasy, but that its just not very Final Fantasy like where while the Bards could wield many weapons their mechanical tool set was pretty focused on the theme of music and effects (and that is the change that I miss, even though I actually also very much like the DND bard). Good counter I suppose is that Bard, is only 5 abilities, and actually do have a focus on songs but that seems to be a limitation of the class x job system, so now we're just talking about that lol (which 'appears' to be going away at least for the new jobs).

The thing is that music focus would probably stretch the idea of a bard in weird ways within the game's framework. Assuming you wanted to keep it DPS, you'd have to turn it into a radial DoT job (basically the BRD would deal damage to all enemies around him while playing music, with probably a couple of abilities that act as short-duration DoTs), which would put it at a disadvantage in most encounters currently in the game (seeing that you're either in melee range or far away with the casters, and very few encounters allow for anything in-between). You could turn it into a healer, but that would require copying Rift's bard with the combo points that can lead to heal "finishers". It would also mean scrapping the placeholder BRD they gave us during 1.0, which would have been more expensive on SE and would have led to a shitstorm among the people that played during 1.0.

The music bard may require special consideration especially moving from single player to multiplayer but it is not 'untranslatable' to an mmo. I imagine you could have designed one to meet the current philosophy of the game and still be musical class (I've seen your fun class designs, and likes of other's), whether you would have wanted that or not.. fair enough- the old school DNDeqsue Bard does make more 'logical' sense lol.

During this whole ordeal, I've looked at BRD as a job that does deal with lore, stories and songs, but needs to have practical skills in combat because it should be able to pull its weight in a fight (much like how old school bards will jump into the fray when their silver tongues can't get them out of trouble). That it comes from the longbowmen of Gridania simply reinforces that notion.

The one thing I will say is that the job should have access to songs and instruments, but more for the sake of RP and in-world aesthetics. I wouldn't be against BRD being able to recite tales and sing ballads while in towns (I guess text bubbles would need to be implemented first). Instead of seeing BRDs do the manderville with every other person in Eorzea, you might see them strumming on their instruments or maybe singing in-game lore songs like the Ballad of the Vainglorious Fool during idle moments. And as a PLD main, I wouldn't feel neglected if SE were to put this kind of effort on BRD.

Really, it'd be nice to see something along the lines of the postmoogle quests or The Greatest Story Never Told but made for bard players.

[Vejjiegirl]

I feel summoner feels more like Green Mage with a familiar rather than an actual Summoner. . .

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/G...8Tactics_A2%29

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Green_Magick

I wish they were more like this
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Summoner_(Tactics_A2)

[Marxam]

Warrior.

Don't get me wrong I love the class and its been my main since 2.0 but all they really did is make a more survivable dps and more squishy tank. I feel like it should have been more offensive to contrast with the pld's defensive cooldowns. Berserk, Vengeance, IB, Bloodbath and SE/SP are good examples of offensive skills that help in tanking and enmity, especially when used in certain combinations. Then we get super lame skills like Foresight which ONLY increases Physical defense while not increasing magic defense or even parry, which is the only passive mitigation Warrior has.

Hopefully DRK will be more of what I was expecting out of Warrior while still keeping the dynamic and intense play style. Also bump Holmgang up to 8 secs

[silentwindfr]

i feel a lot of people complaining about the summoner miss why they have done it like this.

let's say they have done the Summoner like in FFT or any previous game:
- summoner summon ifrit for he launch a fire attack and disappear. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.
- Black mage cast Fire. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.

that sole example resume all, make the summoner "summon" an primal for launch an attack is not different than a black mage simply casting the spell. the damage and function of the spell is the same. that why they have make the summoner like this.

same for the pet version, the difference is instead to be the one casting the damage spell it will be the pet. worst, summoner depending of the number of pet, can simply have tons of skill in comparaison to the other jobs, or simply have a tune down pet that simply be a swap color... since it will only be the type of damage that will change.

what it's important it's the function of the skill. when you understand this, you can get why they did choose to make the summoner class a dot/pet class. indeed actually the jobs need more pet skill and pet command. but the fact to give the summoner some dot, give him a more flexibility and when the pet die, they can still do damage... because, any one that did play a full pet class in other game know this, when the pet is down... you become totally useless and in high level encounter it can happend often.

[Duelle]

let's say they have done the Summoner like in FFT or any previous game:
- summoner summon ifrit for he launch a fire attack and disappear. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.
- Black mage cast Fire. it deal fire damage to the target for X potency.

that sole example resume all, make the summoner "summon" an primal for launch an attack is not different than a black mage simply casting the spell. the damage and function of the spell is the same.

I need to preserve this so that I can paste it every time someone decides to complain about summoner.

because, any one that did play a full pet class in other game know this, when the pet is down... you become totally useless and in high level encounter it can happend often.

Not to mention that by endgame those type of pet classes become burdens to raids because they could be filling that spot with someone whose damage won't drop by 3/4 after the boss AoEs.