Tanks thrown out of farms for low DPS?

[Wizhard]

Now the numbers that some people post or suggested in this thread are kinda ridiculous imo. No one expects some crazy full str geared tank without tank stance and push 400+ dps but from what the op sounds like, the tank was kicked specifically for having very bad dps, meaning much lower than an average tank, not that he wasnt trying to go above and beyond of what a tanks dps was supposed to be. In that case i think it was kinda ok. Of course no specific numbers were given, so we dont know.

The numbers are not the issue, i was able to push those before echo. The message here is if you are not able to clear a boss due to having not enough dps you dont look at your tanks(or healers), you look at your dps.

People are not fine with others forcing the tanks and heals to do more than they are comfortable with, especially to compensate for bad players in the party

Exactly.

[Jim_Berry]

And people wonder why they sit in PF for a long time waiting on a heal and tank; our community is forcing stuff on them. A tank is expected to tank, position, and dps. A healer is expected to heal and dps. DPS are only expected to DPS. Why put strain on the key roles?

[ChaozK]

The numbers are not the issue, i was able to push those before echo. The message here is if you are not able to clear a boss due to having not enough dps you dont look at your tanks(or healers), you look at your dps.

Thats not what the op was saying though. The group was most likely able to clear the content regardless but the tank was kicked for having subpar dps and the concern was stated if dps was part of a tanks job. How much the dps were doing is not relevant for this question.

Edit: To be clear it is not a question of comparing tanks to damage dealers but rather comparing one tanks dps to what other tanks are doing on average and if its ok to critize a tank if that number is far below than what a tank normally reaches. It has nothing to do with expecting a tank to go "above and beyond".

[kyuven]

Healers have accuracy on their gear.
Tanks have Sword Oaths and Inner Beast.

Inner Beast's little thing about doing unmitigated damage seems more like a means to help it build aggro rather than help DPS. Most WARs use Inner Beast for the mitigation buff it gives, not for the damage it deals. Plus it can only be used every 2.33 rotations. Unchained and Berserk would be better examples, as boosting DPS is their entire shtick.

[Eidolon]

Thats not what the op was saying though. The group was most likely able to clear the content regardless but the tank was kicked for having subpar dps and the concern was stated if dps was part of a tanks job. How much the dps were doing is not relevant for this question.

I think the reason we bring up the other DPS is because we see the connectioni

We tanks have to push ourselves to compensate for bad players. Our DPS had to be high to compensate for bad DPS. Our mitigation has to be perfect to fulfill our role. If we die, the first question often isn't 'why didn't you get healed?', it's 'why didn't you use holmgang / hallowed ground to save yourself?'

I think others see the point. When they mention that they understand why there's less tanks, it's because we have more and more expectations thrust on us.

[Felessan]

People are not fine with others forcing the tanks and heals to do more than they are comfortable with, especially to compensate for bad players in the party

People also might not be fine that someone is slacking just because he/she doesn't want to do "unnecessary" extra things like doing damage as healer/tank.
In a normal party setup in farm mode healers/tanks have more than enough opportunities to do damage (and people usually don't ask healers/tanks stupid questions in solo-tank/solo-heal groups). And here is why tank/heals is asked - if DPS should put efforts even in farm mode (and they should), why tanks/heals should slack and only do required minimum of tanking/healing and in open windows for dealing damage - just relax and do nothing.
Every little bit of damage fasten run. Some might not pay attention to this, some will do.

[Wizhard]

Thats not what the op was saying though. The group was most likely able to clear the content regardless but the tank was kicked for having subpar dps and the concern was stated if dps was part of a tanks job. How much the dps were doing is not relevant for this question.

Edit: To be clear it is not a question of comparing tanks to damage dealers but rather comparing one tanks dps to what other tanks are doing on average and if its ok to critize a tank if that number is far below than what a tank normally reaches. It has nothing to do with expecting a tank to go "above and beyond".

Fair enough. Id say that criticizing and comparing tanks dps is the same as comparing dps numbers to dps that does 600+.

Edit: Of course i think that there should be a healthy minimum for that, but it shouldnt be too far from "being able to hold hate".

[ChaozK]

I think the reason we bring up the other DPS is because we see the connectioni
We tanks have to push ourselves to compensate for bad players.

Again this connection should not be made as its not part of this question really. You have to assume that dps and healers are doing a great job but only the tank is doing far less dps than what a tank normally does (as in full vit spec). Being able to clear should be a given in a farm group.

[Eidolon]

Again this connection should not be made as its not part of this question really. You have to assume that dps and healers are doing a great job but only the tank is doing far less dps than what a tank normally does (as in full vit spec). Being able to clear should be a given in a farm group.

I am willing to bet you, at least one of those DPS were not eating food, using pots, or doing a perfect rotation. They won't be called on it, though - but the tank will be scrutinized.

Think about that for a while. :/ you're too quick to assume the DPS are perfect. But I bet the reason this came up wasn't looking at the parser... I bet it was lack of phase push and they just looked at one person instead of everyone.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

This is bs...

If it's a solo tank farm, the purpose of also having one healer is to bring 6... SIX... DPS. If kills are slow, then it's definitely not the tank's fault.

A tank playing his role well states that s/he hold boss and sometimes adds. If you complain about playing roles well, take it up with the DPS who are killing slow AND dying to mechanics.

Sure.

Try to solo tank farm T12.

Point is, both healers and tanks HAVE tools to do dps. Not exploiting those tools means playing a class at a fraction of its potential.

Of course, it is harder to heal AND dps, but it is far from impossible - and the ability (and willingness) to do so marks the difference from good healers to awesome healers.