Nidhogg and the Monetarists

[Cilia]

That's unlikely. We've always been prone to act in the most idealistic way possible and simply hope for the best without much thought towards possible negative repercussions. For all we know, it's the Ascians themselves making sure certain paths seem the most desirable. That is how ancient conspiracies work, after all, and they've been at it for a long time, rather, for all of time.

Yes, I quite agree with this: I don't doubt that this plan has been carefully worked out for centuries, maybe more. Everything they're doing now is just watching and making adjustments to compensate for free will. The big stuff has already been done. Now we need to flip the table...

Here's the thing, though - the more pieces that need to play out a specific sequence, the more opportunities we have to interrupt that sequence. Sure, the Ascians have plots upon plans upon ploys, but if we're able to see through enough of the facade and break the sequence enough times, things could easily spiral out of their control.

Never going to happen because, aside from us being unable to take proactive action against the Ascians, every heroic character is overly idealistic and naive. I went over this before, though. Point is, anyone savvy enough would know they're the link between the Monetarists' and Dravanians' actions in-story and quickly connect the dots.

[Kaiser-Ace]

The Ascians have their hand in every thing. They even claim to have brought the Fall of Allage which was 4000-5000 years ago.

If they've been at this stuff this long, and I don't think it wise to assume we're the only WoLs to oppose them, that they have more than enough experience with manipulating things.

And they really like putting us in lose lose situations. If we defeat the primals we are playing into their plans but what are we going to do, Not Kill the primals? Then they just suck the planet dry and the Ascians still win. They seem to prefer using our "Heroics" against us. heck even Bahamut being defeated by Louisoux was at most a minor annoyance. We've yet to even give them a decent set back since it's always "Going according to plan". Though I think killing Nebraulus was unexpected on their part.

[Fenral]

I think, in more practical terms, (unless, gods forfend, one of our many lawful good companions discovers the joys of a chaotic alignment shift), the only thing really in the way of us hindering the Ascian's endgame is a matter of not knowing what it is. We have bits and pieces, but we're moves and moves into a strategic board game we barely know the rules to, let alone the conditions for victory.

[Kaiser-Ace]

snip

A valid point as well, we can hardly hope to out maneuver them when we don't even know WHAT they are actually planning to begin with. It's like all of the time we spent with the Scions was just learning how to roll the dice correctly let alone actually learn how to play. How can we ever win a game that we don't even know what is? Answer is, we cant. Before we can stop what they're planing we actually have to know what it is. And if it's what I suspect it is, we're just a puppet on their strings. I'm convinced that WE are actually their plan. That in some way or another our power, fame, and "Goodhearted Nature" as a Hero is ultimately EXACTLY what they want.

[Frederick22]

TThough I think killing Nebraulus was unexpected on their part.

Even Nabriales's dead wasnt nothing for they. All they said is that "his acts were stupid" and then they just changed the page like it was nothing.

[Fenral]

I'm convinced that WE are actually their plan. That in some way or another our power, fame, and "Goodhearted Nature" as a Hero is ultimately EXACTLY what they want.

Oh, of course we are. Can't be a hero to everyone, and the brightest lights cast the darkest shadows... But Ascians have none.

[Cilia]

Oh, of course we are. Can't be a hero to everyone, and the brightest lights cast the darkest shadows... But Ascians have none.

The Ascians don't cast shadows because we are their shadows and vice versa.

No doubt we factor into their plans or they're able to work around us, but if we were instrumental to their overarching scheme neither Lahabrea nor Nabriales would have tried to kill us (though whether or not Lahabrea was actually trying is rather suspect, and Nabriales was a loose cannon).

[Frederick22]

The Ascians don't cast shadows because we are their shadows and vice versa.

No doubt we factor into their plans or they're able to work around us, but if we were instrumental to their overarching scheme neither Lahabrea nor Nabriales would have tried to kill us (though whether or not Lahabrea was actually trying is rather suspect, and Nabriales was a loose cannon).

I would said that Lahabreah at the begining he saw as a tread, but after his failure I would said that he may have being convince to follow Edibudus's plan. Somethin that Nabriales, didnt, he wanted power and to make things rush a lot, that was his doom.

[Kaiser-Ace]

The Ascians don't cast shadows because we are their shadows and vice versa.

No doubt we factor into their plans or they're able to work around us, but if we were instrumental to their overarching scheme neither Lahabrea nor Nabriales would have tried to kill us (though whether or not Lahabrea was actually trying is rather suspect, and Nabriales was a loose cannon).

I think Fenral was using a metaphor when he said "The Brightest Lights cast the Darkest Shadows, But the Ascians Have none".
Me personally I've always pondered Edibudus' words from 2.1 when he suggested that if we could see what he did that we might be allies instead of enemies. Between that and Gaius' words in Pretorium I've often wondered if we're fighting for the wrong side. Sure Nael droping Dalamuld on us and unleashing Bahamut was a cut and dry "He's the bad guy" situation, but Gaius actually helped stop him in 1.0.

So the big question I have is, what does Edibudus see with his powers that we can't see with the echo? And if we could see it, would it be shocking enough that we'd abandon Hydaelyn and help destroy her?
I'm starting to think that there's more to Hydaelyn and Zodiark than just opposing Deities. What if in truth, neither of them are the real master of the planet but rather two halves of the original from when, "Light and Darkness were one and the same", as Rahmu put it?

[Cilia]

I would said that Lahabreah at the begining he saw as a tread, but after his failure I would said that he may have being convince to follow Edibudus's plan. Somethin that Nabriales, didnt, he wanted power and to make things rush a lot, that was his doom.

Well it's clear Lahabrea is working with Elidibus now, I don't think they're on the same page. Consider the following ("Before the Dawn"):

Lahabrea: "By my will, [Ishgard] shall reap salvation unlike any the world has known."
Elidibus: "By His will."
Lahabrea: "... By His will."

Elidibus acts in accord with what he feels (or knows) is Zodiark's will, while Lahabrea does what he feels is "right" (rather like Nabriales, since he's implied to be Lahabrea's protegé). Elidibus also commented that Lahabrea was "unique" among the Ascians, so that individuality may be what separates him from the rest of them.