Tanks thrown out of farms for low DPS?

[VargasVermillion]

Tanks that focus too much on DPS scare me. I've had to heal tanks that want so badly to put out big DPS numbers that they've shed all their vit, parry, and block. In order to keep them alive I have to spam heal them. Then they get angry when I pull hate.

Not to mention, that extra 50-100 tank DPS doesn't make up for missing out on healer DPS.

idk how you shed block but parry is garbage.

[Jamein]

It's not something I generally care for in PUG's. If the tanks and healers can push the DPS as well as doing their job then great, if not as long as it's going down who cares.

Although it's always nice to see a warrior in your group going ham, or paladins switching to sword oath when they can, even nicer when the scholar does too. Sometimes the healers and tanks pushing the DPS means the difference between an extra mechanic or not, say in T13 push the phase after the 2nd earthshaker so you've only had 2 flattens and you just saved a bunch of messing around for another megaflare. Or in the second phase you can skip the 2nd rage and be golden for the Giga/dives.

It's not needed, but it sure as hell helps when you do it, and personally, I like to do the best I can in PUG groups whatever my role, because if everyone did that the end game raiding community would be a place of rainbows and unicorns and it would be glorious.

I think the entire thing comes down to a difference in opinion on farms. The problem with most 'farm parties' are that some people in their do NOT have the fight on farm. They have killed it once or twice, they sort of know the mechanics but they are far from comfortable and cannot adjust to mistakes/things out of the norm.

Farm for me, is when you can walk in with a group who knows what they are doing and just 1 shot it 90% of the time because even if someone makes a mistake, everyone knows how to compensate. Runs don't have to be perfect, if you know the fights well enough you can always recover, especially with echo. Farm for me also means you can push the hell out of your class to do it efficiently. Which means doing things like DPSing on tanks and healers, and the DPS classes actually pulling high DPS, not some sort of 'just enough' mid-range thing that barely scratches the enrage just because of echo.

Buuuut that's going off tangent I guess. Doesn't matter what I consider a farm or not the community dictates if you have cleared it once, you are ready for farming. In the end, you don't HAVE to push your DPS on a tank, but you'll be loved if you do.

[lvlagmarink]

I'm curious in what will happen if a random warrior from far distant land, never seen by any healers before suddenly turn off defiance and use holmgang during revelation for better dpsing.. Will the healers heal thru it, or suddenly go panicking and everybody start to blame everybody.. Who's gonna get kicked if the term "1wipe = 1 kick " as well..

[RayneBoemir]

Why not just use one tank that's the way my FC does it.

[Elusana_Celah]

I'm curious in what will happen if a random warrior from far distant land, never seen by any healers before suddenly turn off defiance and use holmgang during revelation for better dpsing.. Will the healers heal thru it, or suddenly go panicking and everybody start to blame everybody.. Who's gonna get kicked if the term "1wipe = 1 kick " as well..

That's how I feel too. Whose fault is it if the tank going all out with DPS dies? The tank's or the healer's? It's really only something I'd want to do if I was with friends or a static but not in pickup groups.

[Jamein]

I'm curious in what will happen if a random warrior from far distant land, never seen by any healers before suddenly turn off defiance and use holmgang during revelation for better dpsing.. Will the healers heal thru it, or suddenly go panicking and everybody start to blame everybody.. Who's gonna get kicked if the term "1wipe = 1 kick " as well..

I think we are throwing things to an extreme here, asking a tank to DPS isn't asking him to throw everything at it and go for high risk high reward moves, just to switch oath/turn off defiance when it's acceptable to do so and push out that little extra.

However if we do go into your scenario then I would say unless the tank let the healers know beforehand, then it's the tanks fault, he should ask the healers if they are ok with it. I always let the healers know which flattens I am going to use HG for so they know they can DPS or do other things while I take no damage, etc.

[HakuroDK]

Why not just use one tank that's the way my FC does it.

Some content makes it impossible to single-tank. Final Coil is a prime example of this, especially T11.

[PArcher]

Some content makes it impossible to single-tank. Final Coil is a prime example of this, especially T11.

While I have seen 1 tank t12 and t13 (both of which are considered more or less "challenge clears" rather than a better method for farming) I have not seen a 1 tank t11...and not really sure it's even possible considering the mechanics of the fight. T10...never seen a one tank clear, but I think I heard of one once; again though, not really an effective farm method if it is possible. Too much can easily go wrong with one tanking these fights, even when everything seems perfect.

However...solo healing t10-t12 is more viable, still hard, but viable. Solo healing t13 is another "challenge clear", possible but not worth it at all.

[SpookyGhost]

While I have seen 1 tank t12 and t13 (both of which are considered more or less "challenge clears" rather than a better method for farming)

Solo tank 12 is actually pretty good and not too difficult (especially easy with a PLD but less overall tank damage). Damage is focused solely on one tank so heals aren't split at all. The main difficulty is with the one Blackfire set you'll see, but that can be mitigated by simply spreading out and manually killing them. I'd say if your tank is geared enough then solo tank 12 is viable and not necessarily a "challenge" clear, whereas 13 requires way too much out of everyone to be a viable farm strategy. Then again unless your intent with the solo tank 12 strat is to push 2-3 Bennus, you might as well bring another tank.

Also 11 isn't possible due to Secondary Head, otherwise it would be feasible but a challenge clear. 10 you'd need lucky RNG on HL and extremely powerful AOE on the adds, otherwise I can't really see it being a thing. I guess you could have a DPS tank one of the add sets but then you might as well bring another tank.

[SirTaint]

Part of what is missing from the discussion is acceptable DPS. Also the fact that most tanks/players have no idea what their DPS is in the first place.

Off the top of my head guidelines. Some of the numbers are lower then optimal but all achievable in PUGs. Like a T10 MT PLD doing 400+ is not uncommon, but anything over 350 and the player understands the fight.

T10 - MT
<250 - Bad
250-350 - Average
350+ - Excellent

T10 - OT
<300 - Bad
300-400 Average
400+ - Excellent

T11 - (cube tank gets a 25dps reduction)
<200 - Bad
200-300 - Average
300+ - Excellent

T12
<200 - Bad
200-300 - Average
300+ Excellent

T13 - MT
<200 - Bad
200-250 - Average
250+ - Excellent

T13 - OT
<250 - Bad
250-350 - Average
350+ - Excellent