Tanks thrown out of farms for low DPS?

[PArcher]

While it is up to the party to set these things...how much more efficient is it to sit around waiting for that "proper" tank over just grabbing one that can get the job done and farming?

There's the big issue; there just aren't a ton of tanks up to this standard. Its great if you can find one, but if you're going to do a run, kick, sit around for 20 minutes, then repeat this all day...are you really being efficient at farming?

And there's having healers who are also up to this standard.


For the record, I do great DPS as a WAR (full 130 STR for almost everything, swapping Defiance when I can, though I'll use my 110 melded set if the heals are weaker or I'm in T13), so I would be one of those these groups are hoping to find. But I'm also more than fine for taking a safer route or grabbing someone who does a little less DPS but can clear without issues for the sake of continuing a farm (as opposed to spending more time in PF than farming).

[Cyrus-Wallace]

If you NEED a tank/healer to DPS, in any current raid content, your party is just bad. End of story.

Progression, sure you might need to squeeze every bit out. But in this scenario given? It's more likely the DPS were just bad and were blaming the tanks DPS.

As a high-end warrior myself, I tank every turn in full i130 right side STR. I have out dps'd mediocre players and lesser geared players alike while tanking. But survival is my #1 concern. If I don't believe I can survive in my gear due to low bad heals, I won't wear it.

Hey, high end tank here too. If people ask the tank to DPS at this point, it's not because they need it. Maybe (see below). They want to minimize the time spent in that content so they can farm it at a faster rate. With FCOB now with echo, I see no reason to use anything but Slaying Accesories. Like you do. If you are a tank that actually can pull big numbers, then you can join, you might know how to survive and do DPS. These PF are not forcing the tanks to pull extra DPS but requesting the players who know how to do it go and join them.

Of course, if that group have high standards, like "YO PULL XXX DPS ON PLD AS YOU MT, ALL THE TIME", I'll expect the same thing in return. I'll expect good healers, I'll expect good DPS. Because if I will bring my A+ game, I want these guys to do the same. If they are asking me to pull extra DPS because their base DPS is mediocre, I'll take my leave, depending on how long that fight takes compared to its average duration.

[kyuven]

Of course, if that group have high standards, like "YO PULL XXX DPS ON PLD AS YOU MT, ALL THE TIME", I'll expect the same thing in return. I'll expect good healers, I'll expect good DPS. Because if I will bring my A+ game, I want these guys to do the same. If they are asking me to pull extra DPS because their base DPS is mediocre, I'll take my leave, depending on how long that fight takes compared to its average duration.

This. If a t12 farm isn't pushing 4 bennus or less, for example, a tank's DPS isn't going to help matters.
3 Bennus or less though? Sure why not.

[PArcher]

Of course, if that group have high standards, like "YO PULL XXX DPS ON PLD AS YOU MT, ALL THE TIME", I'll expect the same thing in return. I'll expect good healers, I'll expect good DPS. Because if I will bring my A+ game, I want these guys to do the same. If they are asking me to pull extra DPS because their base DPS is mediocre, I'll take my leave, depending on how long that fight takes compared to its average duration.

This goes without saying for me, regardless of the job I'm playing. I'm not doing these kind of farms to carry some weak person looking for an item.

Normal PUG farms, sure, I'm OK with people not being on top of things. But if the standards are high for tanks then they better be just as high for everyone else

[Zumi]

Tanks that focus too much on DPS scare me. I've had to heal tanks that want so badly to put out big DPS numbers that they've shed all their vit, parry, and block. In order to keep them alive I have to spam heal them. Then they get angry when I pull hate.

Not to mention, that extra 50-100 tank DPS doesn't make up for missing out on healer DPS.

If you pulled hate its probably because you medica2 when like those little dragon adds come out on T13. The only block stat in the game comes from shield you can't get less of it no gear has block on it.

[myahele]

I think the issue is that it was never really stated in the PF that everyone must needs to have high dps.As far as I can tell it was just a normal farm party

[Eidolon]

If people ask the tank to DPS at this point, it's not because they need it. Maybe (see below). They want to minimize the time spent in that content so they can farm it at a faster rate. With FCOB now with echo, I see no reason to use anything but Slaying Accesories. Like you do. If you are a tank that actually can pull big numbers, then you can join, you might know how to survive and do DPS. These PF are not forcing the tanks to pull extra DPS but requesting the players who know how to do it go and join them.

by this logic, we should expect that all DPS will use the following, every time:
1. Food
2. Potent Poisoning Potions
3. X-potion of Stat.
4. Run your rotation and cooldowns optimally (DPS)

for a farm party. These are staple tools of a DPS's kit, and ones that I use when I merc or likewise when I want to help my friends clearing content (progression), so expecting a tank to do high DPS - I expect the DPS to be popping all of these to do their highest DPS too.

My issue lies with this weird new reliance on tanks to DPS. Too many parties I am the highest DPS in the group (DRG/BLM) or I am on the same level as the BLM/BRD (WAR, sometimes doing more if they are REALLY bad.) My point may not be coming across properly though - but to me, I just see this concept as bad players trying to push more responsibility onto tanks because they can't handle it otherwise. =/ I've seen "Farm parties" get to 5 benu's, even with my WAR-DPS.

I guess I get what you're saying too. It's not that they need it - they just want it to streamline and make the fight easier. I just think it's this weird double-standard that's only thrursted on tanks. Sometimes I feel like we're expected to carry the party. Pop perfect mitigation. Heal yourself (bloodbath/stoneskins), and now do a ton of DPS. It's frustrating as a tank and I worry for my tank friends who tank casually.

[SpookyGhost]

I think the problem with DPS and tanking is that there are a lot of people out there trying it who weren't really around for it's development.

A good DPS-heavy tank doesn't sacrifice VIT for STR - they sacrifice excess VIT for STR. You do not want to go into T13 with 9k HP and basically force your SCH to heal when your DPS won't make up for it. There is a fine line that you need to balance on to achieve high numbers while also maintaining survivability. Knowing when to pop CDs is very important, knowing when you need to be in your tank stance (and being able to mitigate that as WAR) is very important, knowing when you need more VIT because your healers aren't on the ball is very important, etc. etc.

You are a tank first and a DPS second. Do not make your healer's life harder than it needs to be, but don't be so scared that you're sitting at 10k+ HP (PLD) in T9 or whatever. Know how much HP you need, know the fight, and know when you are safe to contribute DPS and when you need to focus on mitigation.

Anyway, I like it when I get a tank that puts out high DPS and doesn't drop like a brick but they are quite hard to find. For T10-12 I'll take any other tank I can get, though I can understand the merits of high tank DPS in 12. As others have said, excluding lower DPS tanks who at least know what they're doing might have you sitting in PF for way longer than it would take to form a perfect party - I have the same problem with people who specifically want BLM over SMN when either is fine.

[dragonflie]

Sorry but, if a party needs a tank's dps to farm, then they are probably not that good.

[Whiston]

Sorry but, if a party needs a tank's dps to farm, then they are probably not that good.

After five pages people are still making this comment.

It's not about being able to farm without good tank dps. It's about being able to farm more efficiently.

I can make the same ignorant comment about any party finder with an ilevel requirement.