"Eureka, the Forbidden Land" thories [Crystal Tower SPOILERS]

[Fenral]

It's not explicitly stated, but implicitly it's only possible to seal the tower from the inside. Either that or G'raha's magical Allagan blood told him to do it cuz it was his fate or whatever... and, well, people don't seem keen on questioning or rejecting fate in XIV.

According to the ST quest, there are two ways to "seal" the tower. Shutting it down and locking the door is one, the command progresses automatically, and anyone with the "key" will still be able to come and go as they please (until the "key" is lost). The second is to cripple it from within, rendering it inoperable. The problem is, the key to the tower and the key to the door were already established by Doga and Unei as being one and the same, so it follows that anyone capable of opening the door wouldn't actually need a bearer of the royal blood to activate and operate the tower itself.

So why did he seal himself inside, even though his attitude towards the tower itself up until then was one of complete indifference? Depression, cheep feelz, emotional blackmail as a motivator, or perhaps he was shown something else that convinced him his fate was decided. The Japanese and English scripts are actually completely contradictory on that point, as well as his final objective, so have no way of knowing for sure, at least for now. Or possibly ever. Hooray for open-ended conclusions?

As an aside, I'm +99.9% sure none of the Scions actually bit the big one. They're too popular and integral to the story. How they survived, and why nobody could find them... look for the answers in 3.x.

If any one Scion is dead, it'll be Yda. Just leaving that there so I can feel tragically smug when I find out I'm right.

[Dante_V]

I honestly hope that they do not continue anything with the CT quest line/story. I didn't like the new NPC's honestly and the entire thing was uninspired outside of the part regarding the imprisonment and utility of bahamut (which is explained in the binding coil in a 1000x more interesting story). I am really hope they break away from past things from titles and introduce more original stories. As far as the lore goes in regards to 3, I think it holds it's inspiration from there obviously but i don't think it is fair to say what is true in 3 must be true in 14 as they are different universes and stories and while one may take inspiration from the other I'm not sure certain conclusions can be based on that end alone. Just my opinion tho.

[Fenral]

As far as the lore goes in regards to 3, I think it holds it's inspiration from there obviously but i don't think it is fair to say what is true in 3 must be true in 14 as they are different universes and stories and while one may take inspiration from the other I'm not sure certain conclusions can be based on that end alone. Just my opinion tho.

If it helps, Yoshida has gone both ways in interviews on the subject of things borrowed from other Final Fantasys. He wants to stay as true as possible to the source material while still taking ownership of the presentation in Final Fantasy XIV. Since Eureka had no real story to speak of in FFIII, they could easily take ownership of it by giving it one, while still staying true to the general details from FFIII. "There is something still active under the Crystal Tower" is a far as we've been led to believe, with Eureka only being the most probable from what Yoshida has said on the subject.

But we still don't actually know if anything will be done with that hint, let alone in the 3.X cycle, or if it will even be related at all to the CT story or characters, so don't worry about it if you don't like the idea. I personally think they're planning on dealing with a lot more original material before they get back to CT, as some sort of throwback, but that's probably years from now.

Going by the arrangement of the pillars, it may end up being entered through the broken-down arch on the first floor of Syrcus Tower, but it goes without saying that a lot will need to happen before anyone is getting in there.

[Cilia]

According to the ST quest, there are two ways to "seal" the tower. Shutting it down and locking the door is one, the command progresses automatically, and anyone with the "key" will still be able to come and go as they please (until the "key" is lost). The second is to cripple it from within, rendering it inoperable. The problem is, the key to the tower and the key to the door were already established by Doga and Unei as being one and the same, so it follows that anyone capable of opening the door wouldn't actually need a bearer of the royal blood to activate and operate the tower itself.

To be fair, whether or not the tower can be shut down and sealed from the outside is unknown. That detail wasn't specified, and I've not the time to go check it right now. I'm assuming it can't be, since Doga / Unei are probably the ones who originally sealed it off and they were trapped inside until the Calamity. How they were able to get out without leaving the door open, well... I have no idea.

Either way, even if future civilizations are able to open the tower and use it without Royal Allagan blood, they might misuse it or even make it go nuclear since they don't know how to properly operate it. This is presumably why G'raha sealed himself inside and shut it down; he's sort of a sentinel to make sure nobody like Xande comes along again to try and jump-start the apocalypse with it, knowingly or otherwise.

So why did he seal himself inside, even though his attitude towards the tower itself up until then was one of complete indifference? Depression, cheep feelz, emotional blackmail as a motivator, or perhaps he was shown something else that convinced him his fate was decided. The Japanese and English scripts are actually completely contradictory on that point, as well as his final objective, so have no way of knowing for sure, at least for now. Or possibly ever.

Magical Allagan blood told G'raha it was his fate to do it; either that or it was his interpretation of Princess Salina's vague wish. He doesn't explicitly state this, but this is the feeling I get from his words, and as people don't seem to question or reject their fates in XIV...

Can't comment on the contradictions between the English and Japanese scripts, as I've no access to the Japanese script and couldn't read it anyway.

If any one Scion is dead, it'll be Yda. Just leaving that there so I can feel tragically smug when I find out I'm right.

Disagree. If any of the Scions aren't dead it's probably Yda; they would't tease us with a glimpse of her unmasked face like that and leave us hanging, not to mention the character development she got in overcoming Moenbryda's death.

Guess we'll have to wait and find out though...

[Fenral]

To be fair, whether or not the tower can be shut down and sealed from the outside is unknown. That detail wasn't specified, and I've not the time to go check it right now. I'm assuming it can't be, since Doga / Unei are probably the ones who originally sealed it off and they were trapped inside until the Calamity. How they were able to get out without leaving the door open, well... I have no idea.

They were inside when it went under, sealed by Amon during the earthquake using high-level time magic, left when the time bubble broke after the Calamity, and the door simply closed behind them. They said as much. Both Doga and Nero also confirm that the door only opens to those with royal blood, but anything else we can guess about how it works is just speculation no more or less valid than anyone else's, since so little was explained.

Can't comment on the contradictions between the English and Japanese scripts, as I've no access to the Japanese script and couldn't read it anyway.

G'raha is this game's Balthier. Completely different personality in Japanese, and the impression left by the final scene is also completely different, even if the outlines are basically the same. Among other things, where the Japanese script says he is fulfilling his purpose "in his own way," the English outright replaces that with, "My blood has informed me of this fact." Considering the response the Midgardsormr thread got, I'm pretty sure that even if I did ask in the Localization forum about why they changed it, "localization" would be the only answer, and for the moment it doesn't change anything. I'm leaving this mostly as a note should it become important later.

Disagree. If any of the Scions aren't dead it's probably Yda; they would't tease us with a glimpse of her unmasked face like that and leave us hanging, not to mention the character development she got in overcoming Moenbryda's death.

There's a lot people thought the writers wouldn't do. I suspect they started dropping hints about her so that, once it hits us that she's gone for good, we can be extra sad knowing that we never even got to see her face. But this is all silly and tangential, 'cause I don't want anyone to be dead, I've just taken to steeling myself for the worst when it come to characters I like.

[Cilia]

They were inside when it went under, sealed by Amon during the earthquake using high-level time magic, left when the time bubble broke after the Calamity, and the door simply closed behind them. They said as much. Both Doga and Nero also confirm that the door only opens to those with royal blood...

I rewatched most of the cutscenes; all true, except (at least in the English script) Doga and Unei never state what happened when or how they left Syrcus Tower. All they say is that they awakened in Syrcus Tower five years ago during the Calamity, and have been roaming the world searching for someone who can help them defeat Xande since. How they left isn't elaborated upon.

Of course it's always possible they closed it behind them, or closes automatically whenever someone with permission to enter isn't nearby. Kind of shoots a hole in how we were able to reenter to reach the World of Darkness though, since G'raha didn't have the power to access, operate, or seal off Syrcus Tower until Doga and Unei game him their blood. It's also possible that you can only shut it down and close it off from the inside; the fact it was closed off when you approached despite Doga and Unei previously exiting lends credence to this. There's just not enough information to know for sure.

Also, that's a bad link.

G'raha is this game's Balthier. Completely different personality in Japanese, and the impression left by the final scene is also completely different, even if the outlines are basically the same. Among other things, where the Japanese script says he is fulfilling his purpose "in his own way," the English outright replaces that with, "My blood has informed me of this fact."

If this alternate line is true (I'll take your word for it), it's simply confirmation that G'raha is going along with his interpretation of Princess Salina's vague wish. True enough, stating he is fulfilling his purpose "in his own way" is much, much more open-ended and vague about other possibilities. Might there be another reason he decided to seal himself in Syrcus Tower? Mmmmmmmmmmmmmaybe... I can't think of one right now, though.

Still, that "I wish I could have been a part of your adventures longer" line pretty much flagged him for the "sealin' hisself in the Tower" route.

Apropos of nothing, while watching I noticed Rammbroes does have that tattoo (albeit white) on his dome. Then again, he's stated to be a former member of the Circle, so it still doesn't really prove or disprove anything.

[Fenral]

Also, that's a bad link.

Fixed it, so now the audience following along at home can call me on any accidental misquotes.

Still, that "I wish I could have been a part of your adventures longer" line pretty much flagged him for the "sealin' hisself in the Tower" route.

If it had happened back in 2.3, I would have considered it proper set-up. I consider everything after beating up Cloud (of Darkness) a single "ending," so I never really considered that separate from the rest. If any of what I said confused you on that, I didn't mean to.

If this alternate line is true (I'll take your word for it), it's simply confirmation that G'raha is going along with his interpretation of Princess Salina's vague wish. True enough, stating he is fulfilling his purpose "in his own way" is much, much more open-ended and vague about other possibilities.

My memory was fuzzy, and I'll admit it before someone else tries to call me on it, at least in so far as the Japanese script does also still mention the blood (in a different context, due to the localization info shuffle). It all ultimately boils down to what was considered important in the wording, so that an obvious indication that G'raha is acting on his own logic wasn't considered necessary can also simply mean it will never be brought up again either way.

Though it is still interesting to note that the causality (in either script, but plainer in Japanese) is quite clearly "I'm doing this because I was made to remember." The unspoken implication being that he wouldn't have do it if he hadn't. This is, of course, where "fate" comes into play, but it seems much more like the FFXIII sort of enforced destiny than just a nice, tidy coincidence that causes things to go all rosy for everyone. Possibly also meaningless, since he didn't seem to have any obvious issue with it, but it's there all the same.

Apropos of nothing, while watching I noticed Rammbroes does have that tattoo (albeit white) on his dome. Then again, he's stated to be a former member of the Circle, so it still doesn't really prove or disprove anything.

Never said it did, though I didn't notice that it was actually the same tattoo. Good catch! Just leaves the eye brand as unexplained, then, but for that we just need another Student or two. (Maybe in the expansion? Are you there, Krile?)

How different this entire quest-line might have been if each episode had a lead-in like Labyrinth of the Ancients, and in-raid cutscenes like in Coil. Less gating and faster raiding, so hooray for the playability side of things, but I can't help but wonder if it was meant to be just a little bit more fleshed-out. The world may never know.

Ultimately, all I've been doing here is throwing darts at the weird little cracks, though by now it's amounted to taking a shotgun to the shooting range and hitting every spot on the target (which is bad, and usually against the rules). This way I'll be right no matter what happens!

Yes, everything turning out great for everyone the whole world over, and seeing G'raha again after Cid and the Ironworks crew (and maybe even Nero!) pull off a miracle and keep their promise of opening the tower again themselves, is absolutely a beautiful future worth striving for, so I don't want you to think I'm against that, per se. I just kind of wonder, at what point does that "there is nothing wrong with this plan" idealism hit that Crystal Braves tipping point?

We're still sending an overeager kid down Good Intentions Boulevard with an ancient doomsday machine, counting on finding a way to ensure that whoever opens that door, whenever it is opened, doesn't just kill and dissect him and have their way with his tower. Not to mention Nero's final walkaway scene can be best summarized with the words "there's something underneath." It's ultimately best for everyone if the powers-that-be simply never address it, or G'raha, again, but to me that's almost a good enough reason why they can't.

[Cilia]

If it had happened back in 2.3, I would have considered it proper set-up. I consider everything after beating up Cloud (of Darkness) a single "ending," so I never really considered that separate from the rest. If any of what I said confused you on that, I didn't mean to.

Unfortunately, since G'raha wasn't awakened to his destiny at the end of Syrcus Tower, there was no way to foreshadow what the outcome of the full ending of the Crystal Tower would be like. Obviously we'd dive into the World of Darkness and rescue Doga, Unei, and Nero, but not much else could be discerned other than Syrcus Tower being shut down; Rammbroes declares this NOAH's new goal in light of Doga and Unei exposing Xande's mad schemes, as well as after everyone acknowledges the danger it poses to the current world.

We knew it was going to be shut down in 2.3. Just didn't know G'raha would seal himself inside it, and he could only decide on that course of action after getting his Allagan blood awakened in the World of Darkness.

Though it is still interesting to note that the causality (in either script, but plainer in Japanese) is quite clearly "I'm doing this because I was made to remember." The unspoken implication being that he wouldn't have do it if he hadn't. This is, of course, where "fate" comes into play, but it seems much more like the FFXIII sort of enforced destiny than just a nice, tidy coincidence that causes things to go all rosy for everyone. Possibly also meaningless, since he didn't seem to have any obvious issue with it, but it's there all the same.

Ah, but see, fate isn't always kind. Frixio outright states you're "destined to walk a fate far crueler than [she] can imagine" when you're given the Lightning Crystal. While 2.0-2.4 left us with this warm fuzzy "I'm Eorzea's superhero" for the most part, that line steeled me long ago for the harsh fate Hydaelyn has shackled us to. Lo and behold, 2.5.x stripped us of our divine favor and forced us to suffer a cruel fate; I've continued to curse Hydaelyn herself and state that I never asked for this since.

He's really in a similar boat to us. While we're bound to Hydaelyn's yoke, G'raha is shackled to the will of ancient Allag. We had no say in the matter, and yet we're forced to play a role on the grand stage we might not even want. While his fate is not very kind, at least he has the comfort of rest.

Fate is cruel. We don't always find sugar and rainbows at the end of its path. Only... to succumb to the will of the Gods, of fate... is this our only choice? Or can we shatter the shackles of fate and create our own future, one shaped by neither Hydaelyn nor Zodiark? That, I think, is the question that needs answering in the overarching story.

Would G'raha not have "needed" to seal himself inside Syrcus Tower had the Crystal Tower storyline not played out? Nope. Could he have challenged his fate even after learning of it? Yes, but he chose not to. That's... that's on him, not us.

Ultimately, all I've been doing here is throwing darts at the weird little cracks, though by now it's amounted to taking a shotgun to the shooting range and hitting every spot on the target (which is bad, and usually against the rules). This way I'll be right no matter what happens!

's cool, analyzing things and trying to find the truth is what debate is unless it's a clash of ideals. An' I'm not a politician.

Yes, everything turning out great for everyone the whole world over, and seeing G'raha again after Cid and the Ironworks crew (and maybe even Nero!) pull off a miracle and keep their promise of opening the tower again themselves, is absolutely a beautiful future worth striving for, so I don't want you to think I'm against that, per se. I just kind of wonder, at what point does that "there is nothing wrong with this plan" idealism hit that Crystal Braves tipping point?

We're still sending an overeager kid down Good Intentions Boulevard with an ancient doomsday machine, counting on finding a way to ensure that whoever opens that door, whenever it is opened, doesn't just kill and dissect him and have their way with his tower. Not to mention Nero's final walkaway scene can be best summarized with the words "there's something underneath." It's ultimately best for everyone if the powers-that-be simply never address it, or G'raha, again, but to me that's almost a good enough reason why they can't.

We didn't do anything. What happened was G'raha's choice, and even if we disagree with it, he all but says verbatim we couldn't have changed his mind. It probably would have been wiser to seal it off from the outside if that's possible... but just like the formation of the Crystal Braves that wasn't our decision to make, even in-story. There's no guarantee things will end well for G'raha when someone is able to open Syrcus Tower, but... all we can do is believe in him.

[Fenral]

I don't even need to line by line the above, because you know I agree, more or less, but as I was never comfortable with the premise I am far less inclined to write it off and move on (but we must, for the future, etc. Yeah, that). You've also managed to highlight, much better than I could, exactly how much drama was simply left unplayed at the end of the whole thing (and, by extension, has yet to be played out). A brief encounter with another soul bound to walk a destiny separate from your own... It's poetic, to be sure, albeit in a much more somber and tragic way than it was played on-screen, but...

I still think Allag has an bigger endgame than simply "hope for all mankind," and that the Crystal Tower will factor into it, but not necessarily as it was intended to. Nothing supporting that except this chill that runs down my spine every time I look at it, but we'll see where it goes.

[Echofalls]

I don't even need to line by line the above, because you know I agree, more or less, but as I was never comfortable with the premise I am far less inclined to write it off and move on (but we must, for the future, etc. Yeah, that). You've also managed to highlight, much better than I could, exactly how much drama was simply left unplayed at the end of the whole thing (and, by extension, has yet to be played out). A brief encounter with another soul bound to walk a destiny separate from your own... It's poetic, to be sure, albeit in a much more somber and tragic way than it was played on-screen, but...

I still think Allag has an bigger endgame than simply "hope for all mankind," and that the Crystal Tower will factor into it, but not necessarily as it was intended to. Nothing supporting that except this chill that runs down my spine every time I look at it, but we'll see where it goes.

I also like to think that we're not quite done with Allag yet, mostly based on the cliff-hanger cutscene at the end. But I doubt we'll find out anything for a long while yet.

For an ending about hope, I found it to be rather depressing...
1: Unless we blast the doors down, we're probably never going to see G'raha again.
2: By the time he wakes up, Revenant's Toll will look like Academia.
3: Who's to say the people of that future will even be friendly to him?
4: If the tower can only be controlled by Allagan royalty, did it sort of slip his mind in his rush to seal it up and sleep because his gift was only temporary, that he forgot it was only temporary? It's going to expire one day, just much later. But it will expire and then the tower will be left as nothing but a pretty landmark again.