Nidhogg and the Monetarists

[Belhi]

What I meant about them not being behind everything was that there are plenty of situations that arise just due to bad people. During particularly the class quests we met plenty of people who have gone bad simply due to their own hatreds, suffering or greed. I meant that the Ascians aren't behind every pirate crew or criminal group to go against us.

More to the point its unlikely most people would believe the warrior of Light if he started claiming on shadowing group of immortals was behind everyone's suffering for the last few thousand years, even if it may be true.

[Kaiser-Ace]

That is true. The Ascians aren't behind individual "Bad People" like say Mistbeard or The Alacrain. But people like Gaius and Lolorito are definitely having their strings pulled.

And that's also why we would have had so much trouble explaining our selves to the people.

PC:"Wait I'm Innocent! I didn't kill The Sultana, I got a message from one of the Crystal Braves to meet them and just found that vial lying there where she said to meet her. Come on guys why would I do that when I've saved you from the primals so many times?"

Random NPC: "Wait a sec, how do you stop the primals from tempering you?"

PC: Uuuum... well... We have this thing called The Echo that... basically allows us to shield our souls from Primals and The Ascians and lets us understand any language."

NPC #2: "Hold on, What in Thal's name is an Ascian?"

PC: Uuuuum... Evil, Immortal Shadow people that steal people's bodies."

<Crickets chirping>

Teledji Adaledji: "What did I tell you! S/He's a witch! Burn the Witch!!!!"

See how well that'd go over lol

[RickiFake02]

PC:"Wait I'm Innocent! I didn't kill The Sultana, I got a message from one of the Crystal Braves to meet them and just found that vial lying there where she said to meet her. Come on guys why would I do that when I've saved you from the primals so many times?"

Random NPC: "Wait a sec, how do you stop the primals from tempering you?"

PC: Uuuum... well... We have this thing called The Echo that... basically allows us to shield our souls from Primals and The Ascians and lets us understand any language."

NPC #2: "Hold on, What in Thal's name is an Ascian?"

PC: Uuuuum... Evil, Immortal Shadow people that steal people's bodies."

<Crickets chirping>

Teledji Adaledji: "What did I tell you! S/He's a witch! Burn the Witch!!!!"

See how well that'd go over lol

But why even mention the Ascians there? The Echo is hardly a secret, and people know that it's why you can face the primals without being tempered.

[Dualblade]

Being that Iceheart has the echo, one could argue that the Scions/WoL think she managed to do so on her own with its help (maybe it was once possible to do what she did in previous ages and the echo helped her see it...possibly in conjucture with a summoner stone).

Also while it probably is Ascians (who are now keeping tabs on this page cause the names probably cursed) I still like to think that Lolorito and Teledji have nothing to do with them or each other when it came down to 2.55.

[Cilia]

Well it's true that the Asicans aren't behind everyday suffering... people like Doesmaga, Leavold, etc. are more likely than not evil on their own. The players on the grand stage, the Garleans, Monetarists, and Dravanians, however, are moving too concertedly for it to be a coincidence. There's simply no way events could line up so perfectly; while some people have brought up the possibility the Temple Knights that showed up at the feast were simply a ruse to get Aymeric out of there, Haurchefant confirms the attack was real when you arrive at Camp Dragonhead.

The coup in Ul'dah wasn't just to get the Sultana killed and the Monetarists in power, it was also designed to get the Scions off the stage. Minfilia herself acknowledges this, but neither she nor any of the other Scions seem intelligent enough to figure out who would want such an outcome and have the resources to ensure it. C'mon, guys! Give it a shot! Work those brain cells!

... nothing? This is why we can't beat them, Minfilia!

All of the gears moving towards 2.x's ending was just a coincidence... is such a thing even possible? Yes it is. There are too many pieces moving in concert to truly believe that, though.

[Frederick22]

The coup in Ul'dah wasn't just to get the Sultana killed and the Monetarists in power, it was also designed to get the Scions off the stage. Minfilia herself acknowledges this, but neither she nor any of the other Scions seem intelligent enough to figure out who would want such an outcome and have the resources to ensure it. C'mon, guys! Give it a shot! Work those brain cells!

... nothing? This is why we can't beat them, Minfilia!

All of the gears moving towards 2.x's ending was just a coincidence... is such a thing even possible? Yes it is. There are too many pieces moving in concert to truly believe that, though.

I agree on what you said, but on the cutesenes with ascians, they event didnt mention nothing about this, like they even didnt care or know about this. Also lahabrea menstions that beacuse of such events he will now try to summons the primals of the north.
Its just I cant find the connection.

[myahele]

I do think the Asciens are behind this this. Due to their age (and potentially being one of the 1st life forms in the world) the Celestial Dragons might be aware of the Asciens and in either case I don't think they are being directly manipulated by the Asciens.

However, it's highly probably that the Asciens are directly influencing the Ishgardians. We know that they manipulated/ played a role in:
1. City State Story quests
2. Lady Amandine Haukke (very minor character, yet she was used by the Ascien)
3. Beastribes
4. Gaius and Nael (maybe other Vans, too?)
5. They were right behind the Pope of Ishgard
6. SMN quest

We know that Asciens can possess bodies, so it's possible that one of his underlings is an Ascien, but it was Lolorito's overall plan. In the end, Asciens want destruction and chaos.

[Zohar_Lahar]

The problem with that assumption is that they never explicitly showed the Ascians with any of the Monetarists, unlike with the XIVth Legion commanders. That's why I bring up Nidhogg, because there was a more visible link between him and the Monetarists.

[Nalien]

I actually find it very possible that the attack on Ishgard that drew Aymeric was just a coincidence... The Dravanian attack on Ishgard had just begun, it is entirely likely that a second wave would occur and what better time to attack than when a high ranking member of Ishgards military is away on a diplomatic meeting?

Although really, did Aymeric even need to be removed? That could have just been a happy coincidence rather than part of the plan. What would he have actually have done were he still there? Probably the exact same thing as Merlwyb and Kan-E; Nothing. I'd take Aymerics reaction as more of a "This guy seems awfully happy about this, what's he up to?" more than any indication that there was something "up" with the Knights. I mean really, Teledji was delivering some pretty bad news for Aymeric, but seemed very happy about it, that is what's eye raising, not the attack itself. Perhaps also the fact that it was quite a blunt message as well, Aymeric was just at a party making new allies, and instead of "I'm sorry to say Ishgard is under attack again, you best return and we'll send some Brass Blades to assist.", he gets "Your city is under attack, GTFO so I can be evil ".

[myahele]

We also know that there are Heretic spies (Iceheart's men?) within Ishagardian knight's ranks. They could've easily used that opportunity to signal the rest of the Dravanians