Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[KisaiTenshi]

Problem is, the end-game content is too hard to clear on DF without a premade party. T9 even after all the echo and gear nerfs is a real gamble on DF. The number of players completing the highest content would dwindle a lot, unless they were to make the content a lot easier..

That was the point. The "clear" hump needs to be set at a level that actually reflects the skill of the player, not the skill of the best player in the party. Selling clears would vanish overnight if "carrying" weak players lowered the reward to nothing or negative. Even if someone bought a "clear", they would not unlock the next turn unless they can maintain that skill level required to get there.

On the other side of the coin, we could just disincentive selling clears by changing the reward mechanics so that players who are punching below their weight are tracked, and players who participated with carries are blocked from forming parties with players who have been carried.

[Darra]

That was the point. The "clear" hump needs to be set at a level that actually reflects the skill of the player, not the skill of the best player in the party. Selling clears would vanish overnight if "carrying" weak players lowered the reward to nothing or negative.

On the other side of the coin, we could just disincentive selling clears by changing the reward mechanics so that players who are punching below their weight are tracked, and players who participated with carries are blocked from forming parties with players who have been carried.

This response isn't just targeted at the person being quoted, but at all of the players arguing that kill selling is inherently bad.

Are you against kill selling because you think it needs to be stopped so that you no longer get annoyed by RMT spam? Or are you against kill selling because you consider it "immoral"? Or is it just that you sometimes get a bad player in your PF party who'd bought a kill?

If it's number 1: Materia costs and crafted items drive RMT more than kill sells do. Most sells that happen cost little money, 500k here, 2mil there, this is not unreasonable amounts and doesn't take that long to make, even without being a crafter. It's the rare sells that someone pays 10million+ for that you start to question the source of their gil, not the pocket money buys/sells. Now I'm one of the people that always argues buying does result in some RMT, and that if kill selling could be limited it would cut down on RMT demand but I also point out that it's not the sole source of RMT. When it comes to RMT, 7/10 complaints I see about it are related to the advertising spam, 2/10 complaints are people purely saying they are against it and don't see a point, and 1/10 is the "It's against my morals", which is an argument that makes no sense to me personally. This tiny group with the "morals" create conflict within the community by peddling their views (ergo, kill selling itself isn't responsible for harming the community, it's people's opinions of said act that can be "harmful").

If it's number 2: This is a personal belief, and one you have no right to try forcing upon others. I do not like the taste of coffee, I wont drink it, but I wont deny other people coffee, so why would you or anyone else think they have a right to force their moral codes upon someone else? You wouldn't like it if I were trying to force my ideologies upon you if they differed from your own, so why is it alright for you to do so to others? This is actually where the harm comes from, not the act of selling or providing a service, but from the people that are so strongly against kill selling that they try to force others to change to their way of thinking, or belittle players that have bought (you don't even know why players pay for kills that they paid for, some are just for glamor items or a specific drop they've been unlucky in getting with their own static)

If it's number 3: This has been pointed out a lot of times, bad players exist, players that take a while to learn content exist. Some players just take longer to learn content, other players struggle with certain mechanics and require instruction on voice chat (but do perfectly well when you tell them to do something), other players struggle with the movement style of randoms. I've recently experienced a MNK in T10 that when flank attacking moved on top of me as an OT forcing me to move into Crackle Hiss to avoid stacking our Heat Lightening, this has gotten me killed as a result of that MNK's ridiculous movement patterns. The point is, whilst some that pay are bad and will drag down your groups, others that don't pay can do that just as much, so to bring it back to the original topic of discussion: "Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community", in this case, it isn't exactly helping but it's certainly not the major cause of harm to it, it's a minor affect if any.