New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

[Mugiawara]

And yet you freely admit you'll lie to them about how many quests there are after Praetorium. Which means now you're lying to us. Why are people still listening to your bull****?

I have been done with him, he says "Stop insulting" but constantly says "Can we use our brains" all day so screw it.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I have been done with him, he says "Stop insulting" but constantly says "Can we use our brains" all day so screw it.

I mean of other people, I could care less if someone attempts to insult me actually. I am defending others if you have noticed. =P

Use your brain isn't really an insult. Its my way of saying: "Look at it from this prospective." except in a much meaner way.

And yet you freely admit you'll lie to them about how many quests there are after Praetorium. Which means now you're lying to us. Why are people still listening to your bull****?

First of all, your not my friend nore are you my ally. There are also almost as much quests after that then they have before. Or at least close. When your skipping through these things it all kind of blends together though.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...uide/db/quest/
I mean seriously. "LOOK"

The story is the fundamental underlying feature that holds the whole game together.

No, i'm pretty sure thats game-play. Otherwise SWTOR would be more popular then this game. It has much better stories. However game-play, instancing and everything else leaves much to be desired.

Its too bad though that it became a game where you got to high level then quit.

[Zohar_Lahar]

I never understood why people rag on this game's storytelling. I understand some of the filler arcs were contrived, but really...I paid close attention to all Main Scenario dialogue.

[Alberel]

If the expansion was nothing more than a lengthening of the story, then what you say would make sense. Of course they would just call it 2.6, and not an expansion.

They don't have to level to 50 to get to Mor Dhona, or the two cities other than their starter city, or start a different class, or most other features of the game that aren't end game content. Playing a new level 30 job and flying mounts shouldn't be lumped into end game content gating.

Just wanted to point out that WoW (you know, the biggest MMO in history) gated its first new class AND flying mounts behind high level content. You couldn't play a Death Knight unless you had a level 55 character (near enough the original level cap) and you couldn't fly in Outland or Northrend until you went through the majority of the content in those regions and unlocked the training manual at 68 and 78 respectively. Why exactly are you arguing on behalf of new players when this is nothing new?

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I never understood why people rag on this game's storytelling. I understand some of the filler arcs were contrived, but really...I paid close attention to all Main Scenario dialogue.

I just don't think such filler should be part of the main story, but side-quests that unlock as you do it. As they are pretty much things anyone can do really.

Just wanted to point out that WoW (you know, the biggest MMO in history) gated its first new class AND flying mounts behind high level content. You couldn't play a Death Knight unless you had a level 55 character (near enough the original level cap) and you couldn't fly in Outland or Northrend until you went through the majority of the content in those regions and unlocked the training manual at 68 and 78 respectively. Why exactly are you arguing on behalf of new players when this is nothing new?

55 isn't near to 80. Getting to 55 was easy, but it took a bit of work to actually grind upwards. This game's grinding is much better with its progressive system. (Its about the same every level.) Where in WoW (at the time.) you flew past low levels.

You didn't need to complete any quests or side quests and once you unlocked it it gave you pretty much all you needed.

Anyways, WoW wasn't fun. I got to 80 then quit, didn't like the game-play of the classes much at the time.

[Bluevann]

Just wanted to point out that WoW (you know, the biggest MMO in history) gated its first new class AND flying mounts behind high level content. You couldn't play a Death Knight unless you had a level 55 character (near enough the original level cap) and you couldn't fly in Outland or Northrend until you went through the majority of the content in those regions and unlocked the training manual at 68 and 78 respectively. Why exactly are you arguing on behalf of new players when this is nothing new?

Look, I understand the thread is huge, but people are constantly bringing up the Death Knight example only to be reminded over and over and over that Blizzard admitted that choice was a mistake. The conversation is looping with ripetitive posts that could be avoided by reading some pages before posting.

[Nestama]

Just wanted to point out that WoW (you know, the biggest MMO in history) gated its first new class AND flying mounts behind high level content. You couldn't play a Death Knight unless you had a level 55 character (near enough the original level cap) and you couldn't fly in Outland or Northrend until you went through the majority of the content in those regions and unlocked the training manual at 68 and 78 respectively. Why exactly are you arguing on behalf of new players when this is nothing new?

And Blizzard outright said that was a bad idea. Heck, Blizzard even removed that requirement, as you can now start the game as a (newbie) Death Knight without already having a level 55 character.

[SDaemon]

Actually, Role Playing means you play the role of a character, meaning the Warrior of Light in this case. You play out their role, not how you would do it, but the role that was meant for them

Wonder if he understands that when you play even table top RPGs you don't play as yourself but as a separate character. In table tops you have to adhere to the character you created. If you made a rebellious cheating and backstabbing rouge then you behave like a rebellious cheating and backstabbing rouge in whatever situations come up. You don't act how "you" would react in that situation as you are not playing as "yourself".

And Blizzard outright said that was a bad idea. Heck, Blizzard even removed that requirement, as you can now start the game as a (newbie) Death Knight without already having a level 55 character.

3 Expansions later, well I suppose we can be generous and say 2, but it really happened towards the life end of MoP.

[Viridiana]

First of all, your not my friend nore are you my ally.

You have no idea how grateful I am for that, since you admit you would lie to your friends. Here, let me quote it for you:

Now lets use our brains for a second ok?


Me: "Talks about how awesome of a time he has had in X Game."

Friend: "Wow, that sounds like a great game! You seem to be having a lot of fun in this game, and the new content sounds awesome! They are raising the level cap so I have a chance to play with you right?"

Me: "Pauses... reddens.."

Friend: "Whats wrong?"

Me: "Sorry, but I won't be able to play with you for awhile."

Friend: "Uhm.. but that sounds ridiculous, why?"

Me: "*Huge Breathe..* First you have to complete all the story content, then you have to get a certain ilvl, then after 50 you need to complete about 150-180 more quests, even more then you had to do to level 50. Then after that you have to complete the level 50-60 quests all whilst playing with pugs and new players since nobody really needs to do most of that content anymore."

Friend: ".... Enjoy your game man."

I edited out the bolding you did, and added my own where you lied. There are not 150 story quests after Praetorium.

There are also almost as much quests after that then they have before. Or at least close. When your skipping through these things it all kind of blends together though.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...uide/db/quest/
I mean seriously. "LOOK"

You want me to look at every single quest in the game as if that means something? Here, let me fix your crappy linking:

2.0 Base quests: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...=1&category3=1

Post-Praetorium quests: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...=1&category3=2

It's amazing how linking to the proper sections can take the count from 1,461 down to 346! But wait, there's more! Since I'm not a horrible liar, I'll actually point out the problems with these counts!

If you follow the link for the 2.0 base quests, you'll notice that a lot of them are counted multiple times. Also, many of them are mutually exclusive (e.g., you can't do "The Gridanian Envoy" and "The Lominsan Envoy" on the same character). Luckily, I've used my first-grade counting skills to count up how many quests I actually did. There are 184 quests from "Close to Home" until "The Ultimate Weapon," including those two. Add in the two that I'm pretty sure are main scenario but fall under "Side quests" in the journal, and you're at 186.

Now, for the Post-Praetorium quests, there's a different issue. Hard mode Ifrit/Garuda/Titan were not originally main scenario, and therefore are not included in the Seventh Astral Era section, even though they're needed for MSQ progression. That adds 4 quests to the 100 shown in the link, leading to 104.

Anyone following along at home will note that the 104 main story quests after Praetorium is nowhere near the 150-180 that you told your hypothetical friend about. And since anyone who's completed the MSQ can look at the completed section of their journal and see where the cutoff for Seventh Astral Era is, they can easily call BS on your claims, too.

The best part, though, is that I didn't even count all the quests you're expected to do on the way to Praetorium. Specifically, I left out 7 Class quests on your first class, up to 5 on your sub-class (assuming you have to do them to unlock the job; I don't remember, honestly), and 6 Job quests (not counting the relic, because there's no way to know if new players in 3.0 will need the relic). That puts the 2.0 Base count up to 199-204 quests. Which means the Post-Praetorium quests are almost literally half of what you will do before the first set of credits rolls.

In short, your lies are so blatant that anyone with any interest in the matter can point them out, and lying like that to your hypothetical friend makes you the sort of person I would never want to call my friend. Might I suggest spending less time in the game and on forums and more time bettering yourself as a person?

[Kagalli]

I don't see the problem with them putting new classes behind 2.55 story progression, in XI, you needed to get to 30 to unlock new classes, in my time, it took forever just to get to 30, then unlocking that class, then leveling that said class, or leveling the sub for that class so you won't be a noob.