I'm confused about Yoshi-P's thoughts on dps-check programs.

[RiceisNice]

..

On one end, it's very easy to tell when an individual is slacking on their job as a dps (ninjas not using trick/huton, spamming the same attack over and over). Though they have a tendency to throw out the "I play how I want" or "the boss is dead right?" card moreso than the healers or tanks. If it's up to me/my party, I'll typically have none of that when it comes to a farming or clearing party.

[Iromi]

As a tank, if I do not pick up the mobs I was supposed to, lose agro, do not try to mitigate tank killer, have low health from broken gear, etc. Everyone knows. I am called out. I am replaced.

As a healer. If I am not preemptively healing, keeping the tanks topped off and the rest of the party up, everyone knows. I am called out. I am replaced.

As a DPS. If I am not dpsing as well as everyone else, I can run around mashing some buttons and no one will ever know that it is me.

Yeah, something needs to give DPS some accountability. That it will hurt people's feelings is a silly argument that holds players back from having some accountability or desire to improve.

This should be posted in the OP.

What I have to do instead during raids, is ctrl+F on different DPS..and watch them while I am doing my own work. I have to watch them for like..several fights to see what is going on. Kind of feels like babysitting and it is ridiculous. Then as usual, when I finally feel like I have seen enough to speak up, they get all defensive, etc and usually never ends well.

SE needs to give us something to make this easier and more efficient so everyone can see it, instead of my word against theirs.

[Zfz]

Not having a parser also means we can't help those who genuinely want to improve.

"I'm doing exactly that rotation you gave me, why am I still 25% less dps than everyone else?"

"Okay pull up the dps charts and look at the DoT uptime. You see how John has 95% uptime but you have only 60%? This means that when your DoTs have run out their duration, you didn't quickly put them back up. You need to glance at the target debuff bar more often to check for your DoTs. Then see how John has 68 Ruins but you only have 45? That can mean you're moving around too much so you can't cast spells as much, one thing that can help is, if you don't know what to do, press the Ruin button."

Parsers let us do this. It lets us give accurate advice.

"You see how Smith's Rage of Halone is hitting on average 9,999 but yours is only hitting for average 5,000 even though you have the same weapon and iLv? This means most of your Rage of Halone aren't combos, so they hit for less. Also you see how Smith has 0 misses on Fast Blade but you have 38 misses? That's why you're not making the combos, and it shows that you need to rearrange your gear to get more Accuracy."

Parsers let us do this. It lets us find out where the problem is instead of "hey, you're just a bad player, what can I say."

[ZettaB]

I know its beating a dead horse at this point, but people have already said it. Parsers are not intrinsically good or bad. They are just tools that people use.

To an analogy made about cars and speedometers earlier. Yes you can drive a car without a dashboard, or even without an OBD slot, but it sure as hell helps to figure out what went wrong when problems occur..!

[kirk]

A ingame parser would be a great tool to have even if just for personal use/ for end game only content long as it only shows personal dps and there is a share option so you can show the group how much dps you did

[Kallera]

I don't trust an official universal parser in the hands of our community. I think it would not only create more problems than it would solve with the pf's newfound scrutiny, but it would eventually demand content to have much steeper curve in difficulty, one that would affect every player, intentionally or not.

A personal parser...sounds more helpful, but I'm still wary of the idea. I generally think it'll lead to problems between new and old players

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I can only imagine how this would go over in the crowd who feels healers have to DPS.

[Laerune]

I would love to have a feature where I can see how much dmg I have dealt to the enemy, but from my past experience, I have witnessed that a dps check program is a trigger to insult, exclude and demean other players. The addon would be amazing when the player can only check their own dps or check the dps of their friends, inner circle, free-company or linkshell. But the moment some random player sees your dps and finds it to low, all hell breaks lose.

Like alot of FFXIV players, I too have played World of Warcraft. While WoW did always have her fair share of turds, it wasnt untill the dps check addon that players started being realy mean towards each other. The community starts inventing their own damage per second that a player needs to reach and in a short time we see majority of the community following this absurd rule. Right now we have players leaving a dungeon if 1 wipe happens, we have gamers leaving a dungeon if someone does not meet the ilevel that they expect of other players to have (even if they have the right ilevel for to enter a dungeon).

I would love to have a personal dps program so I can learn from my mistakes and improve myself, but the community has shown that they can be very immature and demean others for their mistakes. I rather have no program then a program that will divide and turn this community in the new World of Warcraft or League of Legends.

So in a summary:
- Dps program that the player can only see their own preformance = YES
- Dps Program that other players can see your preformance = NO

[Zumi]

I saw a drg in shiva yesterday and the only thing he did was use the true thrust, vorpal thrust, full thrust combo. Never used heavy thrust or the chaos thrust combo. This guy had a zeta weapon and he obviously didn't know the correct drg rotation. There are a lot of people out there who play dps that think as long as they stay alive and do a 1-2-3 combo they are doing it right. They think they have no accountability but when boss doesn't die and we are meet with enrage timers that is the dps fault. These type of players won't play tanks or healers because it is easy to tell when they are not playing well.

There should be some sort of dps meters to make dps accountable just like tanks and healers are.

[Laerune]

I saw a drg in shiva yesterday and the only thing he did was use the true thrust, vorpal thrust, full thrust combo. Never used heavy thrust or the chaos thrust combo. This guy had a zeta weapon and he obviously didn't know the correct drg rotation. There are a lot of people out there who play dps that think as long as they stay alive and do a 1-2-3 combo they are doing it right. They think they have no accountability but when boss doesn't die and we are meet with enrage timers that is the dps fault. These type of players won't play tanks or healers because it is easy to tell when they are not playing well.

There should be some sort of dps meters to make dps accountable just like tanks and healers are.

I think instead of a dps meter, Yoshi-P and the other developers need to go back to the drawing table and change the leveling difficulty. The reason why alot of players press 1-2-3, is because from 1-50 you only need 1-2-3 to kill stuff. When you are spoonfed with a content that treats you as a newborn, afcourse this will reflect at endgame. On all my classes, I only needed to press 3 skills to kill something, with my whm I only needed Stone + Aero. The leveling content is easy, too easy.

I bet my mooglecap that if the leveling content was harder and players were forced to use their buffs/defensive skills/stuns/silence etc, they would be a different tyoe of player at endgame. I doubt the dragoon in your party did not know about their other skills, its just that he is used to that playstyle (or he is lazy/trolling), I mean why use stuns or defensive skills if you did not use them while leveling?