I'm confused about Yoshi-P's thoughts on dps-check programs.

[Mhyrria]

First question, why do we need to have an official dps parser/window/log? Main answer would be for end-game content.
Then, 2nd question, who would need it? Statics doing end-game.
Now, how many of those statics are NOT using parsers? PS4 and a minority of the PC players.
So, do we actually need parsers on WoD, BCoB, SCoB, ST, etc? NO!

I have tanked and dpsed SCoB a whole lot of times. The reason the party fails is not because of dps checks, it is because of mechanics. DPS parsers won't help the party on the final phase of Nael when they don't even know when to fire-in fire-out thunderstruck-out, dont know where to bloody put the divebombs provided they even noticed that divebomb marker in the first place.

So if SE would give an offical DPS parser, make them available only in non-DFable content, currently Savage and FCoB. There is ZERO reason for a DPS parser outside those two. All of the DFable content can be cleared with the required iLvl and knowledge of the mechanics. You would have to have a pretty f'ed party to utterly fail any DFable content provided all mechanics was properly executed. And there was only one instance of this that I recalled, I was tanking GEX. Mechanics-wise, flawless, yet we kept dying at the last phase. The 2 garuda-clone adds were never killed. The problem, 2 bards were wearing ilv120-130 STR accs, all left side at that. Would a parser have helped? With a parser, we would have noticed in the first wipe and vote kick/abandon. Without the parser, we noticed at 2nd wipe so we vote abandon.

[SDaemon]

Absolutely no. :P
Informing someone of their rotation is already wrong: a good attitude for an end game player is to be curious about end game contents mechanics and his/her job rotation and not waiting random players tips about your own job. This attitude is extremely annoying, trust me. You will eventually receive tips from people but your first job is to run a solid rotation (as DPS or tank) and to practise a lot. The fact you're going to wait people telling you about your rotation is insulting and disrespectful. Parser is a must in any case.

Pro-tips: you wont start any end game content if you don't even know your own rotation.

Pro-tip: Thinking informing someone of their proper rotation and boss mechanics will do less for them than a silly parser is wrong.

[SDaemon]

They already do that

No reason to give them more ammo

[Elusana_Celah]

Absolutely no. :P
Informing someone of their rotation is already wrong: a good attitude for an end game player is to be curious about end game contents mechanics and his/her job rotation and not waiting random players tips about your own job. This attitude is extremely annoying, trust me. You will eventually receive tips from people but your first job is to run a solid rotation (as DPS or tank) and to practise a lot. The fact you're going to wait people telling you about your rotation is insulting and disrespectful. Parser is a must in any case.

Pro-tips: you wont start any end game content if you don't even know your own rotation.

It depends greatly on how you word it to them. If they are in coils or any raid content where DPS actually matters, they should be open to suggestions but you have to approach it carefully. If you even appear slightly as angry or 'know it all' they will reject your advice.

[Zfz]

I've been a tank main since beta. Recently I've been a healer main. Now I've leveled up my Black Mage, the first question I asked myself after my first alliance content was this:

How the heck do I know if I am performing properly?

That's why I support having an official parser. I don't care if I can only get my own numbers out of it. That's all I need.

[Fumijj_Gah]

It depends greatly on how you word it to them. If they are in coils or any raid content where DPS actually matters, they should be open to suggestions but you have to approach it carefully. If you even appear slightly as angry or 'know it all' they will reject your advice.

I don't get it, what do you mean if you even appear 'slightly as angry'? We do not need to share/say anything about DPS results, everyone should have their own parser open and to judge by theirself. I guess few of you completely missed what I'm trying to say. We really do not need to share any results if not for personal records (this when everyone in the group master fight mechanics), provided that every raider's DPS knows his/her rotation.

Parser's main goal is to improve DPS when it comes to progress and you need to optmize movements and dealing with new mechanics, unless you need to learn your job and then you're going to run it by youself with some cheap content primals-like.
Sadly, over 70% of FFXIV's players know nothing about their jobs and I blame Square-Enix to not include an official parser software in-game, not everyone play on PC and are confident with tools after all.

[abzoluut]

First question, why do we need to have an official dps parser/window/log? Main answer would be for end-game content.

People like to have a general idea of their performance. If it's only available in "end game", DPS most likely have to learn the best rotation/decisions during said end game. I, for example, rather have it ready when I enter end game.

The main reason SE gave us to not make it happen is the "abuse" one. It gets old. When people can't have the decency to not throw with food, a cinema should not refrain from selling popcorn because there is this group of people who will "abuse" it.

SE already stated that you can kick people for something the party agrees with. People have been kicked for nothing. Every week one of those threads pops up. Why is DPS such an issue?

[Titor]

As a tank, if I do not pick up the mobs I was supposed to, lose agro, do not try to mitigate tank killer, have low health from broken gear, etc. Everyone knows. I am called out. I am replaced.

As a healer. If I am not preemptively healing, keeping the tanks topped off and the rest of the party up, everyone knows. I am called out. I am replaced.

As a DPS. If I am not dpsing as well as everyone else, I can run around mashing some buttons and no one will ever know that it is me.

Yeah, something needs to give DPS some accountability. That it will hurt people's feelings is a silly argument that holds players back from having some accountability or desire to improve.

[StrejdaTom]

Statics will always need and always use parsers, for trials, CT-like stuff and dungeons they aren't necessary as they can be done even with people who don't play their job well, so they aren't necessary there and they would probably only grow elitism and deuchebag-ism between people.

Even if SE put ingame parser only to coil-like raids, people would probably use 3rd party parsers because they would most probably provide them with more info than the ingame one but! people will be able to tell people to improve themselves without being banned, because performance of others would be visible - that won't help statics but it would improve performance of PF and DF parties.

So in my opinion there are only 2 realizable types of ingame parser. Personal parser for every content and party parser for coil-like raids.

As a DPS. If I am not dpsing as well as everyone else, I can run around mashing some buttons and no one will ever know that it is me.

Yeah, something needs to give DPS some accountability. That it will hurt people's feelings is a silly argument that holds players back from having some accountability or desire to improve.

Sir, I totally agree with ya.
I play BRD since day 1 and I want to be able to know that I am doing my job well and also I want others to be able to be sure that I am doing it well and in case that I am not, I want them to be able to know it and react to it.

[Fyce]

As a tank, if I do not pick up the mobs I was supposed to, lose agro, do not try to mitigate tank killer, have low health from broken gear, etc. Everyone knows. I am called out. I am replaced.

As a healer. If I am not preemptively healing, keeping the tanks topped off and the rest of the party up, everyone knows. I am called out. I am replaced.

As a DPS. If I am not dpsing as well as everyone else, I can run around mashing some buttons and no one will ever know that it is me.

Yeah, something needs to give DPS some accountability. That it will hurt people's feelings is a silly argument that holds players back from having some accountability or desire to improve.

Thank you.
I was looking for that particular post in this thread. It's a shame that it came so late.

My main roles are Tank and Healer. I get yelled at immediatly if I do something wrong, because if I'm not doing my job properly, it's very obvious.
So I get yelled at, and I set up my game to improve myself in order not to receive any more complains, but commandations instead.

I have no clue why some people in this thread want to overly protect the DPS players from the "you are bad and you should feel bad" sentences while it's already happening with Tanks and Healers.
People need to man-up and accept the fact that they are sometime bad at their job and that they need to improve in order to stop pulling down the group.

In short terms: we already can all out Tank and Healers on their poor performances, why not DPS? We need to stop protecting them so much if we want a better overall skill level.