Has it always been like this or...?

[Mugiawara]

I'm at work laughing my damn ass off. the one picture with the guy reading then look up and true nekos 'delete ppl in rl' is making me die. xD! I mean we've talked about this for years and were all just arguing the same crap with a devs piss poor response that solves nothing. I'll be back but thanks for my break entertainment. love you guys haha. (on mobile)

[TruebladeNuke]

I'm at work laughing my damn ass off. the one picture with the guy reading then look up and true nekos 'delete ppl in rl' is making me die. xD! I mean we've talked about this for years and were all just arguing the same crap with a devs piss poor response that solves nothing. I'll be back but thanks for my break entertainment. love you guys haha. (on mobile)

Sadly, most people so far are taking it too serious. I said it with the idea of it being a joke, but people would rather take offense to it. Hell, there's a meme pic revolving around it.

Wow... Seriously uncalled for! All that over someone who opposes your opinion? You're the sick on here...

As someone who has personally stood at the bedside of several close relatives who died from cancer, I'm seriously offended you even took the time to write some garbage like that...

It was a joke. I realize cancer in RL is serious business. That's how I lost my pet. And I didn't like it one bit.

So don't act as though I'm not human.

[JimboTCB]

Castrum is objectionable for both the frequency and the length of its cutscenes - before or after the dungeon is one thing, but having them interspersed constantly throughout the entire length of the dungeon is just taking the piss. I mean, the devs obviously realise it was a horrible design choice, because everything after a certain point in development, all the hard mode primals and so on have a very short intro cutscene, but the bulk of the storyline is shoved down your throat when you exit the instance - i.e. after everyone's already got their loot/commendations and you're not holding anyone up except for yourself.

[Kitano123]

Sadly, most people so far are taking it too serious. I said it with the idea of it being a joke, but people would rather take offense to it. Yep.

I stated it was ironic you complained about insulting people, nothing more. You're the only one trying to de-rail this thread. Rather than lame "jokes", how about trying to form a constructive argument?

[AreeyaJaidee]

Sadly, most people so far are taking it too serious. I said it with the idea of it being a joke, but people would rather take offense to it. Yep.

Cancer is a joke?! Are you serious? You have no shame? You still think its justifiable to mock the ramifications of disease that continues destroy ppls loved ones without discrimination of age or any other factor?

That's comedy to you?! Really? Out of all the other things in this world , that's what's funny to you?

What's worse is, not only is what you said way over the line, but instead of having any type of remorse you add insult to injury by continuing with justifications on your behalf as if there's a possible defense in the fault of others?

Its wrong. You need to take your damn internet goggles off and strap on some humanity. Seriously

[TruebladeNuke]

I stated it was ironic you complained about insulting people, nothing more. You're the only one trying to de-rail this thread. Rather than lame "jokes", how about trying to form a constructive argument?

Way ahead of you on that. I don't feel the need to repeat myself over and over again mind you, so just click that link.

Cancer is a joke?! Are you serious? You have no shame? You still think its justifiable to mock the ramifications of disease that continues destroy ppls loved ones without discrimination of age or any other factor?

That's comedy to you?! Really? Out of all the other things in this world , that's what's funny to you?

From my edit:

Seesh. I see so many others get away with spouting this joke, but the moment I use it, all hell breaks loose. Sounds like my luck alright.

Again, I know it's a serious business technically. If cracking jokes about it offends you that much, I'll refrain from it in the future. Now stop acting as though I'm not human.

[Duuude007]

I already addressed this "majority" argument. Theyre not always right, or just, and are often times completely apathetic and hostile towards a minority.

You cannot say this without blatantly ignoring the all-too common hostility new people have when confronted with the concept of ‘having to get along with’ what the party wants to do.
Two sides, same coin. Nobody is the superior in this argument. With context, your point is moot.

Ive pointed it out multiple times even and the hypocrisy with gladly accepting the rewards new players give yet still mistreating them.

Just like the new players gladly accept the generosity of short queues? Okay. Again, not superior argument to returning players. Moot point.

Some, for instance, expect new players to use the much less efficient PF to find story groups knowing full well itll take them much longer to find a group for that as opposed to veterans who have a much higher chance of finding farm groups (being the "majority" and all)... yet here they are, not giving a ... Their problem, right?

Um, a few things here. First, the most common time a vet would use PF for CM or Praet is if they were helping somebody through story and are short a few players. Helping newbies. Second, the only time I ever recall seeing someone even bother doing these dungeons apart from grinding Gaius Card, is via daily roulette. For the daily bonus. New player bonus is white noise . Saying that simply because there are more vets on the server means it is easier to form a pf party is comically oversimplified, if anything they would be less likely to join because of the common volatility of those without experience, and general fatigue of the old content. Again, Gaius farmers would be a key exception, and the value of tomestones would be of lower priority to them. They would just want faster clears. They care about their progression just as much as a new player does. Neither is more deserving of how it is done, all things being equal.

You speak as if veteran players care little for the added rewards new players give yet they obviously love it. When one joins the group the often even express it when the dungeon starts.

Technically what vets ‘love’ is efficiency. If any dungeon is inefficient, vets will not do it, causing much longer queues. Sitting still for a cumulative 30+ minutes for cutscenes every single run is both unnecessary and maddening to many people, which is why, as GMs have explained, an agreement must be decided upon at the beginning. And a vote is the common way of coming to said agreement. Whoever has majority gets what they want, anyone who interferes with said agreement is violating the EULA.

I already said SE has the ability to change this efficiency by adjusting rewards to persuade players to treat others with the same respect shown to them when they first entered the dungeon and still queue up with the same frequency. It need not affect the queue times by much if adjusted correctly. You can either spend the extra 20-30 minutes letting someone watch cutscenes or come back for another 20-30 minute run for the same reward (and a bigger repair bill). Not only is this efficiency adjustable by SE (making your point irrelevant) but I doubt a simple penalty (to an already added bonus) for taking advantage of newbies will result in the hour+ long queues.

Step 1: New players come to forums to complain that queue times are way too long. That Devs need to add incentives to bring back vets.
Step 2: SE obliges. They create Tome bonuses to encourage vets to repeat old content.
Step 3: Veterans find a more efficient farming method, and participate to take advantage of said bonus.
Step 4: New players successfully clear the content, slowly reducing the pool of new players. (and become minority)
Step 5: New players come to forums to complain that dungeons are being rushed. That Devs need to remove incentives to put vets in their place and do what the new players demand.
Step 6: SE obliges. They make the amount of tomestones per hour cut in half unless player spends 2x as long in the instance
Step 7: Veterans find a more efficient dungeon, effectively boycotting the dungeon.
Step 8: New players play nearly explicitly with new players. (and become majority)
Aaand the vicious cycle continues ad infinitum.
Step 1: New players come to forums to complain that queue times are way too long. That Devs need to add incentives to bring back vets.
Etc, etc…

Your so-called idea has holes in it. Come up with something better or expect lasting consequences if/when SE ‘obliges’.

Here's the thing, though. The Roulette bonus is not there to help vets. It's there to help new players. If you're going to participate in a Roulette that's designed to help new players, why would you simultaneously expect them to forgo the rest of what's there to benefit them? have any preexisting expectations when playing alongside 7 complete strangers?

Hey, fixed that for you. No motive for accessing and clearing content is superior to any other.

Perhaps you should read the first post of this thread. The point was that they were cursed out and yelled at, called names and threats, for wanting to watch cutscenes. And this isn't a new behavior.

Nor is it exclusively instigated by vets. Not by a long shot. I have endured many highly volatile newbies who have been just as terrible to returning players.

[AreeyaJaidee]

I mean, its sad that both sides of this argument even have to squibble over some dumb stuff like cutscenes.

The whole making light of ppls death and cancer drives home the real issue here.

Too many of you see the internet as memes and such. At the end of the day, were all humans connecting to a social experiment. Human life is something we all share in common and our behaviour on this topic and most times in the game seems a mockery to our species in general.

Jokes and stuff are fun, but too many are using the facade of "I'm just joking" as weapons to inflict malicious intent and do specific damage to each other.

SE went over all this already! They explained there reason for allowing skipping of cutscenes in the past when they weren't skippable.

Does anyone remember the threads about ppl crying because being forced to watch cutscenes?

What was SE reaction? They made a design choice and in doing so stated their stance on instance progression.

Were arguing the very thing they gave us.

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

... *psychoanalysis* ...

I actually have lost loved ones to Cancer. But I didn't think that the comment about a post giving someone cancer was making light of it at all. Sometimes humor is just that, and if we can't laugh about it then we've allowed it to suck more than a little joy out of life.

Laugh in spite of cancer, not because of it.

[TruebladeNuke]

I mean, its sad that both sides of this argument even have to squibble over some dumb stuff like cutscenes.

The whole making light of ppls death and cancer drives home the real issue here.

Too many of you see the internet as memes and such. At the end of the day, were all humans connecting to a social experiment. Human life is something we all share in common and our behaviour on this topic and most times in the game seems a mockery to our species in general.

Jokes and stuff are fun, but too many are using the facade of "I'm just joking" as weapons to inflict malicious intent and do specific damage to each other.

SE went over all this already! They explained there reason for allowing skipping of cutscenes in the past when they weren't skippable.

Does anyone remember the threads about ppl crying because being forced to watch cutscenes?

What was SE reaction? They made a design choice and in doing so stated their stance on instance progression.

Were arguing the very thing they gave us.

You'll get no argument from me on those points, especially the bolded part there. Honestly, if you think I'm bad with that joke, I should introduce you to some of the people I've met across the internet. I've met people who have little to no humanity in them at all.

And hey, if it makes you feel better, apologies. I'm sorry to hear you had to go through that with your family. As I said earlier, I actually do know how serious it is. I lost one of my pets to cancer, so I pretty much know how awful it feels. You're not alone on that. *Gives a cookie*
(Seriously, I meant no harm. I was hoping to get people to laugh)

By the end of the day though, people are always going to be complaining. My sig pretty speaks the cold truth on that. Demons exist on both ends of this thread's argument, and I fear there won't ever be a true solution to this case.

EDIT: Well, with this whole ordeal about that earlier post I made resolved now, I hope, imma slink back into the shadows again. Resolving this matter took a bit more time than I figured it would. o.o