New Jobs Gated Behind Completion of 2.0 Story?

[Jandor]

In the same way, someone who was drew to FFXIV:ARR by the White Mage comes and realizes that he needs to labor through 30 levels of "work" and the main story at least up to Ifrit, and then wtfwhydoihavetolevelanarcanist, only after all that, he can play the White Mage.

So all those people who argue that new jobs should not be gated behind 2.55 story...are you also arguing for that all JOBs be available at level 1?

Being available at level 1, being available at level 30 like every other job and being available after getting to level 50 and gearing out to at least i100 like what seems to be the current plan are all pretty different things.

[Duuude007]

Being available at level 1, being available at level 30 like every other job and being available after getting to level 50 and gearing out to at least i100 like what seems to be the current plan are all pretty different things.

At least i90... not 100. Easy to craft a full i90 set, and PF/decent teamwork makes the hardest stuff... not that hard.

I vote we wait and see rather than riot about something we haven't actually experienced yet, as people are seriously lacking in supporting evidence.

[Jandor]

At least i90... not 100. Easy to craft a full i90 set, and PF/decent teamwork makes the hardest stuff... not that hard.

I vote we wait and see rather than riot about something we haven't actually experienced yet, as people are seriously lacking in supporting evidence.

Oh, thought steps was i100. My mistake.

Point remains though, if it was just level 50 that might be fine. But having to spend or grind to gear up a job you don't intend to keep playing because what you really want to do is fling robots and shoot guns is a bit of a downer.


Even putting all gameplay/lore reasons aside, I'd like them available at level 30 just for continuity.

[Duuude007]

Point remains though, if it was just level 50 that might be fine. But having to spend or grind to gear up a job you don't intend to keep playing because what you really want to do is fling robots and shoot guns is a bit of a downer.

We will know what gear these jobs use well in advance, and can level a base class which is fully compatible in gear requirements, be it healing, fending, aiming etc. so that you can avoid any wasteful gear growth past 50.

So I doubt this will even be a concern for most.

[LineageRazor]

We have approximately three months until 3.0. That should be more than enough time to get things done.

That's great for folks playing right now; no one in this thread should be concerned about them. But what about players who start playing the game a year from now, who saw the Dark Knight on the box, thought it was awesome, and then realize all the crap they'll have to go through before they can even be the character they bought the game wanting to be?

For example, Samurai and Ninja had been in Kazham. Norg to be exact. However, you needed to obtain Kazham Airship pass before even reaching the quest starter.

The difference being, while you needed to unlock the Kazham Airship in order to access Samurai and Ninja, the only gate to unlocking these jobs was the same gate to unlock ANY job: Be level 30 on any job. If you are level 30 on any job, obtaining a Kazham Airship Pass is easy. Each and every expansion FFXI ever put out, new jobs were always accessable to anyone with a job at level 30. At every stage of the game, newcomers were limited to starting with one of six different jobs: Warrior, Thief, Monk, White Mage, Red Mage, or Black Mage, but after getting any of these to 30 they could unlock any job from the base game or any expansion.

But with things in FFXIV, they couldn't get any more linear than what they have now.

This is one thing that worries me a bit, but it's too early in the game's life to be TOO concerned about it. The first expansion has decided to directly continue the original game's storyline. That's acceptable. However, what if the second expansion continues the story from Heavensward's end? And the third continues after that? And if each expansion locks its content behind this storyline? Years down the road, a new generation of players are deciding which game they'd like to devote themselves to. Hey, this one looiks cool, "Final Fantasy XIV: Into the Void"! Looks like I can be a Samurai, that's awesome. Oh, wait... Looks like I have to buy "Final Fantasy: Ascent of the Twelve" and play through it before I can get into Void and unlock Samurai? Um... okay... wait - looks like I gotta do "Underdusk", "Heavensward", AND the base set before even that??? Uh, no; I think I'm gonna stick with a newer MMO.

If an MMO is going to stick it out for the long term, they can't afford to gate content behind a storyline that gets longer and longer and longer as time passes. Doing so alienates new players, and new players are NECESSARY to supplement the loss of older players as they leave the game. Sure, there's a core of players that join early and stick it out come hell or high water, but this core is much too small to sustain the game by itself - or, at least, too small to sustain the game in the lavish manner we currently enjoy.

FFXI's solution was for every expansion beyond the first to have its own story running parallel to the original Main Scenario. The Main Scenario came to a fairly decisive end with Rise of the Zilart (though later quests occasionally would pick up on loose ends here and there). Chains of Promathia was an independent story that elaborated on many elements teased at in the original Main Scenario questline but required NO progression in that questline. Treasures of Aht Urhgan was pretty much completely divorced from both of those storylines. Wings of the Goddess was a time travel storyline covering a lot of the backstory for the original Main Scenario that required no progression on any of the above. Seekers of Adoulin, like ToAU, was pretty much totally independent.

In FFXI, a new player to the game was presented with a library of stories to experience, not a single story that goes on and on forever. While it was generally a good idea to do the Main Scenario, it wasn't required; they could, if they decided that wasn't interesting, instead explore Adoulin, or Aht Urhgan.

This, I think, is the RIGHT way to implement expansions. Give new players a reason to buy them NOW, not MAYBE LATER. Requiring the base game is pretty much a given. Requiring the first expansion as well, is shakily okay. Requiring a player buy every expansion in the line, and play them all through end to end is asking for trouble.

Having never played WoW, I'm a bit curious as to how they handle expansion fatigue? Presumably, they had some kind of player storyline similar to a main scenario in the vanilla set. Do new players joining now have to go through that, as well as the contents of every following expasion, in order to do anything worthwhile in the latest expansion? Do WoW's expansions introduce stories in parallel with the main story?

[Socomlord]

Why should they be given instant gratification? Level up and do the story like the rest of us.

[Lorielle]

The difference being, while you needed to unlock the Kazham Airship in order to access Samurai and Ninja, the only gate to unlocking these jobs was the same gate to unlock ANY job: Be level 30 on any job. If you are level 30 on any job, obtaining a Kazham Airship Pass is easy. Each and every expansion FFXI ever put out, new jobs were always accessable to anyone with a job at level 30. At every stage of the game, newcomers were limited to starting with one of six different jobs: Warrior, Thief, Monk, White Mage, Red Mage, or Black Mage, but after getting any of these to 30 they could unlock any job from the base game or any expansion.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. I was simply pointing out that they had a different form of gating. You couldn't just make a new character and boom. You can go be that job(which is what this big fuss is really all about).

[Zplinter]

I do not get the all the "veteran" objections to having the new classes open to new players that buy the expansion. I GET, and agree that the content (quests, story, lands, etc) should be gated past where we are now. That is pretty normal in any expansion to a game, unless the devs are making a lateral expansion and not a vertical one (think shadowlands AO (lateral to start), versus TBC/WotLK/cata/etc in WoW (vertical)).

Yoshi somewhere in the past stated that he felt that the job/class system that we saw at re-launch was not working. So to me it would make a lot more sense to just have you do the class from level 1 on up and have your cross class skills work mostly as they do now (i.e. you level up another class and some of the skills can be used by certain other classes). Having us do the combat classes the same way we do the DoL and DoH would also allow the devs to have longer more unified class story line. Another bonus would be that you could take the jobs that we have now and use them to fit into niches. Take the jobs of gladiator and maurader and turn them into plated dps/support, archers could be more dps focused and bards more support, etc.
For those that insist that the job/class stay tell me why? do you ever use your non-class "job" once you are your class? What is the benefit to having the jobs?

Face it the reason why you make an expansion is to make money, so why in the world would have an expansion that has NOTHING to entice new players?

[LineageRazor]

Why should they be given instant gratification? Level up and do the story like the rest of us.

Because "the rest of us" was handed the story in easily digestible chunks over a period of a year and a half. A new player will have the whole thing right in front of them from the start. The entirety of the Main Scenario is a pretty daunting thing.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. I was simply pointing out that they had a different form of gating. You couldn't just make a new character and boom. You can go be that job(which is what this big fuss is really all about).

I am not opposed to gating the new jobs, but those gates should be no sterner than the gates behind our current jobs. Ideally, you should be able to access the new jobs at level 10, the same time we can access new classes. Level 30 would also be an acceptible gate, if we're going to semantically insist that since they're called "jobs" they should be accessible no earlier than existing jobs. Access at level 50... iffy, but not too bad; it's not hard to level a job to 50, but it's difficult to come up with a rationale for this restriction.

But what we're looking at here is much, MUCH beyond that. A new player needs to level a job to 50, then gear up to an ilvl of 90, and then complete pretty much all the story content from nearly two years' worth of updates. THAT is what is going to scare off new players thinking of joining the game - and we need those new players. Older players leave the game constantly for one reason or another. If we don't get fresh blood, SE gets less and less income from the game. Loss of income means we wind up with reduced quality in upkeep of the game. I don't want that; no one should want that.

Therefore, expansions should be tailored to offer juicy tidbits for new players to gnaw on even while they progress through the older content, as well as new content for the folks who've been around a while. Right now, I ain't seein' much juice for anyone who hasn't played the game from release.

[Ayrie]

Because FFXI is a paragon for new player experience.

Heck, even getting to 30 the first time for a player was a massive chore.

Then getting to rank 5, arguably harder the getting leveled.

Then getting to Norg and doing the ninja quest... or fighting the nm for the job unlock quest.

It wasn't just getting to level 30 and magically the problems were over.

Don't let people think that. It is very unfair.

If this is the rule 3 expansions from now there may be a problem.

Forcing someone to complete the base game before expanded content isn't exactly a new concept... Perhaps you'd like to refer to the definition of expansion.