Failing on Calibrated Rose Gold Cog HQ

[MN_14]

But I do agree with Zephyr's sentiment that I find it hard to sympathize with someone just expecting to be spoon fed the answers because well, crafting simply can't be spoon fed..

I don't think any experienced crafter would disagree with that sentiment. I just wanted to point out that without spending a lot of gil, someone could reach 3* and still know nothing about crafting. I might be misinterpreting his posts, but Zephyr seemed to be insinuating that for that to happen, you had to participate in RMT and spend millions on gear, which I found to be a bit unfair.

Bickering over this is pointless, however, as I think we all agree that players should have to learn how to craft to unlock the best recipes.

[GenJoe]

I don't think any experienced crafter would disagree with that sentiment. I just wanted to point out that without spending a lot of gil, someone could reach 3* and still know nothing about crafting. I might be misinterpreting his posts, but Zephyr seemed to be insinuating that for that to happen, you had to participate in RMT and spend millions on gear, which I found to be a bit unfair.

Bickering over this is pointless, however, as I think we all agree that players should have to learn how to craft to unlock the best recipes.

No you're right.. I don't necessarily agree on the RMT part.. it's really not hard to make the money to get your crafting gear without crafting to make the money. In fact, if somebody did go the route of RMT, I don't think they'd be fretting over the cost of gear anyway What is a full set of artisan gear anyway? $10?

I think what likely happened is that he saved up all his gil by spiritbonding, leves, whatever else gave him gil.. had barely enough to gear up. Thought it would be a gateway to easy money then BOOM! manual II decides to screw with him.. which would be a huge downer, don't get me wrong.. But that's the price you pay for taking short cuts.. I took short cuts too from AF -> 3 stars.. I just used Talan's set to get there and I was completely clueless for about 2 weeks.. I blew up 12 sealants on failed reclaim etc.. But all that culminates to help you craft better next time. I might've been a little harsh because he sounds like he's just going to give up, and well.. I think that'd be such a waste.

[shanvhere]

I spent countless hours spirit bonding my gear for the Gil\\'s, I just felt dishearten I spent so much work to be stuck. I appreciate the help as I\\'m reading to fill my need to become a better crafter

[GenJoe]

I spent countless hours spirit bonding my gear for the Gil\\'s, I just felt dishearten I spent so much work to be stuck. I appreciate the help as I\\'m reading to fill my need to become a better crafter

I can understand the pain of losing the gil, but the game isn't designed to screw you over.. I'm glad you're not giving up on it because crafting will help you make it all back and then some.

Only way I can describe it is.. Unless you come up with one of the most optimized solution, it will give you a hard time because 8 stacks of IQ vs. 9 stacks vs. 10 vs. 11 are all WORLDS apart, so even improving a 11HT rotation to a 12HT rotation is a drastic improvement.

scarebearz' guideline is actually pretty accurate and concise, and that actually applies to all 3-4star crafts as well as the token..

for example 3 star rotation goes PbP RS RS -> Quality touches -> GS -> Byregots -> CS2
4 star goes PbP RS RS -> Quality touches -> GS -> Byregots -> CS2 -> CS2.
token is something like PbP PbP RS RS -> Quality touches -> GS -> Byregots -> CS2

So it's all similar, you basically have to account for 10 extra durability out of 3 star to make 4 stars, and take 10 more out of that to make the token etc..
So if you get enough practice with 3 star crafting (terminus putty, wolfram ingot are cheap to practice on) you should get the feel for it.

[ZephyrZ]

A melded AF set and a rng free rotation is all that is required. I know this for a fact because I did exactly that with my other classes.

AF gear is cheap and easily obtainable (I got my first set by farming shards and selling low level items, which can be crafted by spamming SH, GS, AT). In any case, I think it's inappropriate to insinuate that someone is participating in RMT when players can make millions by spirit bonding or even fishing.

I think you missed the point. I already said he would need 1 of three things which is melded AF set / unmeldable artisan set / or melded artisan set.

He doesn't have the unmeldable set, the AF set would cost more in the long run to fully meld so it makes sense that he went with a melded artisan set. Yet since he doesn't know rotations it's obvious that he bought it and regardless of server. You're looking at a minimum 1mil per body piece (4mil total) 1 mil for all accessories + belt and around 1.5 mil per offhand. Add in around 5-10mil for some melds, not even to be fully melded. and You're looking at around 22-27 mil from spirit bonding? Sure bro, sure

Regardless of if he got his gil from spirit bonding or rmt's. He bought his way to the top and i'm glad he can't progress because he shouldn't be able to, he has no idea what he's doing when it comes to crafting and until he chooses to actively try to learn instead of asking for hand outs; he'll be stuck between a rock and hard place. All because he skipped the learning curves that were put in to make sure you progressed at the right pace. I for one am glad to see lots of NQ 4* stuff on the mb, let's me control markets easier and force out anyone that tries to come in.

I can understand the pain of losing the gil, but the game isn't designed to screw you over.. I'm glad you're not giving up on it because crafting will help you make it all back and then some.

Only way I can describe it is.. Unless you come up with one of the most optimized solution, it will give you a hard time because 8 stacks of IQ vs. 9 stacks vs. 10 vs. 11 are all WORLDS apart, so even improving a 11HT rotation to a 12HT rotation is a drastic improvement.

scarebearz' guideline is actually pretty accurate and concise, and that actually applies to all 3-4star crafts as well as the token..

for example 3 star rotation goes PbP RS RS -> Quality touches -> GS -> Byregots -> CS2
4 star goes PbP RS RS -> Quality touches -> GS -> Byregots -> CS2 -> CS2.
token is something like PbP PbP RS RS -> Quality touches -> GS -> Byregots -> CS2

So it's all similar, you basically have to account for 10 extra durability out of 3 star to make 4 stars, and take 10 more out of that to make the token etc..
So if you get enough practice with 3 star crafting (terminus putty, wolfram ingot are cheap to practice on) you should get the feel for it.

I don't even know where to start, let's talk about a 3 star rotations. Should it be 4 steps or 5? If you do 4 steps for progress, you get another quality step. Yet that step is worlds apart because you 10 or 11 stacks is a massive difference? That's wrong, to be more precise it isn't accurate from lack of information.

PbP is a waste of 15 cp in a 3 star rotation simply because that one extra HT step you gain is NOT useful, in fact it is a detriment.

3 star rotation goes PbP RS RS -> Quality touches -> GS -> Byregots -> CS2 @ 11 stacks

if you do NOT use pbp, take out 1 HT, so assume 10 stacks with GS and BB but what you also get is Innovation and the freedom to bait for higher quality condition. The condition aside, the innovation gs bb will end up giving you more quality with 10 stacks than 11 on gs + bb.

Crafting is not hard, all you have to do is put some effort into figuring out what's best and in which order. The fact that people blinding accept rotations in mind boggling to me.

scarebearz is a reputable crafter so i don't think he/she would have posted such a lack luster rotation for 3 star, that rotation doesn't even apply for new 3 star crafters because they wouldn't finish progress and it isn't useful for crafters that are near or already at 4 star craftmanship.

The ONLY situation where 11 stack + GS BB would yield almost the same quality as 10 stack inno GS BB is at 440 control or more and even then, there is still a 100 quality difference which is 99% or 100% for a synth.

[GenJoe]

Those aren't my actual rotations, just showing a basic structure of how the rotations differ from 3 stars to 4 stars to manual tokens.. Point I'm trying to make is that 4 stars = 3 stars with 1 extra progress step. manuals = 4 stars with 1 extra progress step etc.

Thus, practicing on a 3 star craft will grant him the experience he needs to get the token crafting down because they're all quite similar

[scarebearz]

What are you talking about? Most of his videos are bad. Either in terms of rotation or in terms of misinformation on how skills work, granted i haven't bothered watching any of his in months since i was under the impression that he was just following rotations he found online and didn't really know what he was doing himself. Which is fine because he wanted to be a macro crafter but even then, his macro's tended to be more inefficient with cp wasted all over the place.

I've only seen a few of his guides to be fair, so perhaps not enough to judge. But that said, the other ones I saw were aimed at total newbie crafters at the "lower end" of crafting.

The rotations for macro's could be better and more efficient sure, but they are rotations many fresh 50's can use fairly easily and close enough to 100% HQ rate. The plvl guides seem ok too.

So for the target audience, they are useful.

My issue is with the Master 2 tokens, because it's so counter-productive and likely to put people of "high-end" crafting. The crafts are already RNG based, but most of the "rotations" and "guides" I've seen online make them a heck of a Lot More RNG based!

[ZephyrZ]

Those aren't my actual rotations, just showing a basic structure of how the rotations differ from 3 stars to 4 stars to manual tokens.. Point I'm trying to make is that 4 stars = 3 stars with 1 extra progress step. manuals = 4 stars with 1 extra progress step etc.

Thus, practicing on a 3 star craft will grant him the experience he needs to get the token crafting down because they're all quite similar

I understood that, point i was trying to make is that both 3 and 4 star should have exactly 5 progress steps for the above reasons i already mentioned.

I've only seen a few of his guides to be fair, so perhaps not enough to judge. But that said, the other ones I saw were aimed at total newbie crafters at the "lower end" of crafting.

The rotations for macro's could be better and more efficient sure, but they are rotations many fresh 50's can use fairly easily and close enough to 100% HQ rate. The plvl guides seem ok too.

So for the target audience, they are useful.

My issue is with the Master 2 tokens, because it's so counter-productive and likely to put people of "high-end" crafting. The crafts are already RNG based, but most of the "rotations" and "guides" I've seen online make them a heck of a Lot More RNG based!

That's a good point, to be fair thought; i never thought the purpose of all the videos was aimed towards new players. That was something more recent. I say this because he was one of the first people to make the 3 star rotation public, but even the it wasn't exactly the most efficient as you said. To be fair, i see so many lack luster rotations on the forums and these attempts at guides that i don't even know what to make of them, most of the time i question if people even read the skill descriptions

Just because something is 100% doesn't make it good in my eyes, just like being able to easily clear extreme primals or farm t10 in full 130 gear (over geared). I watched the plevel guide after you mentioned it, i was never into long video guides myself but i can see how others might benefit from it. Personally i would just refer others to http://ffxivcrafting.com/levequests.

I never understood why people are having trouble with those. I struggled with my one master book 2 and that was it, after that it was nothing more than pbp pbp rs rs cs cs, reclaim if not 11 stacks, repeat. I can't really call it skill since the entire synth relied on 11 stacks, good condition and gs but i guess the skill came from baiting the condition and getting 11 stacks.

I had more trouble, maybe that's the wrong word but lucis tokens (Fluorite Lens) was harder to craft HQ than the MB2 tokens. Simply because i was adamant about making it a 2 progress rotation but i do think it needed to be more of a challenge, more quality needed or limited skills, something deserving of earning a master main hand tool. I think i had about an 85% hq rate overall for those. The need to not use reclaim made them easy but tedious which was sort of a let down, catered towards casuals.

[GenJoe]

I understood that, point i was trying to make is that both 3 and 4 star should have exactly 5 progress steps for the above reasons i already mentioned.

Ahh you mean to leave 2 CS2 left on the finisher for the byregot's bait? Yeah that's probably more important than getting 1 more HT for most cases, I agree. If it's an expensive craft, I'd invest more in the baiting for sure.

[ZephyrZ]

Ahh you mean to leave 2 CS2 left on the finisher for the byregot's bait? Yeah that's probably more important than getting 1 more HT for most cases, I agree. If it's an expensive craft, I'd invest more in the baiting for sure.

The 3 star rotation you mentioned was pbp RS RS CS2, 4 steps and 11 stacks.

This is worse than RS RS CS2 CS2 CS2 10 stacks, because.

The CP used for pBp is essentially an innovation.

10 stacks + Inno + GS + BB >>>>>more quality gain than>>>>> 11 stacks + GS + BB

So you have GS + Inno (first bait) + CS2(2nd bait) + BB + CS2 + CS2

The 2 baits compared to 0 are nice to have. The innovation you are able to include into the rotation is what makes it better/more efficient.