Dear All Bards,

[AlexionSkylark]

As a WHM, my biggest peeve is with the BRDs who refuse to use Ballad even when they see the entire party with less than 50% HP, my MP almost gone, and me shouting on chat "SHROUD NOT UP FOR ANOTHER 30 SECS, BALLAD PLZ", all of that falling on deaf ears.

[Snugglebutt]

This is going to be a long post and will repeat a lot of the things I have said before, but no-one is forcing you to read it.

This thread is so enlightening....

I guess I don't need to be concerned with efficiency. Who knew?!

You want to be efficient when taking part in easy content? That's is your choice to do that if that is what you want, I have no problem with that at all whether that means your using perfect rotations on trash mobs or easy bosses, popping pots and food buffs in easy content like 4 man dungeons, B rank or A rank hunts, when taking part in fate parties or in the easy raids like ones described by the OP. Whether you want to pull every mob in a dungeon to clear it quicker or skip cutscenes. That's your choice and I would respect that choice you made on your character to push your own harder to clear something faster but I would like it if you showed the same respect for others who do not wish to do those things on theirs when such things are not needed or required.

Since Bards are apparently allowed to ignore a chunk of the abilties that define the job itself.....

As I said earlier...The support skills (by 'chunk' you mean the measly three support skills vs eighteen DPS skills) are not being ignored overall in the grand scheme of things per se, they are generally used when needed instead of when not needed, as far as I am concerned bards are perfectly okay to rely on their primary role instead of support role when taking part in easy content which does not require it's use. My issue with this thread and the OP is his demand they play songs when not needed in easy places which do not require any songs to be played at all including the insults and attempts to belittle any bard who does not conform to your speed run preferences when taking part in easy content.

I put forth my opinion that in those specific easy places using those specific skills mentioned by him is not complaint worthy in comparison to for example places which need to use those skills and more skills than he listed. That in those places he mentioned players do not need to speed run it, should not be forced to speed run it just because he might prefer they did in the same way tanks should not be forced to speed run dungeons if they do not want to do so, players not forced to eat food buffs or pop pots in easy content where not needed just because someone else wants to speed run it, that players do not need perfect rotations in easy content which is an extension of the threads premise, the premise of players have to do (x) because I want to clear content faster not just because want to actually clear it which such skills are not required in the examples he gave.

I can stop using Goad on people when they need it.

Given my stance has been throughout that if it is needed then people would have it and people should do it at those times...what you just said doesn't seem related to what I have been saying. In fact I have said constantly if it is needed people should do it but if not needed then it is up to the individual if want to do such things and that people should respect that choice in that situation. It would of been more relevant if said when people 'want' it and not when 'need' it, this threads premise is about speed runs, some peoples 'wants' and not their 'needs'.

Let us also not forget I do actually play songs all the time in easy places like WoD, that is my preference but the difference is I do not think I should be forcing everyone else to do so just because I prefer that play style on mine when taking part in such easy content. I understand it is not needed, that speed running is just a preference or want and not a need, so I will not force others to speed run against their will when there is no need to do so.

I can stop using Trick Attack to support group damage.

I don't need to worry myself with Ninjutsu because Mudra are just so darned pesky to put in the right order.

I can stop using Dancing Edge because the extra slashing damage just makes the mob die faster and that isn't important.

Speed running content is not important to a lot of people, clearing content is important to almost all people. Speed running is just a preference some individuals have. My stance is people who share the OP's view do not get to force everyone else to share that preference, to stop trying to enforce your chosen play style on others when your play style is not needed in that specific level of difficulty content. Nothing stops you from pushing your own character harder to clear easy content faster and most people are willing to respect your choice to do that with your character most of the time but likewise unless your paying other peoples subscription fees and came to an agreement with them to speed run it...prior to joining that DF for those places then I am asking you to respect their choice too just like they might have respected your choice to push harder on your own character if that is what you wanted to do.

I'm a DPS. I can just hit things because I'm not part of a team. This should be relaxing.

On easy content if you want to push your DPS hard, use pots or food buffs, not deviate from a perfect rotation that is fine. It is however also perfectly fine to take it easier, not use pots, not use food buffs and put less effort into your rotation when not on hard content...the kind of content that does not require such. That is the difference between my stance and some other people here like the OP or yourself. If taking part in hard content which requires a class to push the limits of his characters skill set then I will also push them to make use of it but in easy content I respect the individuals right to not speed run as long as the content is being cleared unlike you and the OP for example in what appears to me to be your stance.

Oh, and no one is allowed to complain about the glacial pace of completing the content, you speed-running elitists! It's my job and I'll play it how I want!

Of course you can complain about it but to me if your going to complain about something then at least complain about something more worthwhile in my opinion like using all the skills needed to clear hard content when taking part in hard content, I might even agree with you on some things in that situation, speed running easy content however is nothing more than your preference. Such things like skipping cutscenes because might be to speed up the run, pulling all the mobs to speed it up or using food buffs/pots to speed it up. All of those things are merely preferences.

You however do not get to force everyone else does the same as you just because you prefer such things in my opinion, not on easy content, not when in DF as opposed to being part of a static, PF group or when tackling content which actually might require such. In PF you have the right to force others to do so because you write in the listing such things as a requirement to joining the PF, in statics you have the right because as a static you all come to an agreement before doing the runs but the examples given by the OP most people are there through DF not PF or statics.

The only bad bard is the bard who refuses to play songs when needed, when not needed and they do not they are not a bad bard. You can call them lazy if you want because they are not helping 'speed run' easy content but more often than not you can only call them lazy in easy content and not lazy where it actually counts which is the hard content.

As I said I do play songs in easy content most of the time especially in raids of any kind but unlike some here I do not hold a grudge, hate or have contempt towards those who do not play songs when songs are not required in easy content. I think a lot of the time those that do not in easy content probably do not because it is easy content and they may have already spent a lot of time stressed out doing hard content which required their complete focus and then came to do easy content to relax more, or they have cleared it a hundred times that day and are bored out of their minds with it so decide to do enough to make sure it gets cleared but make it less stressful on themselves for that specific run by focusing on their primary role instead of secondary one for once.

I have no problems with people taking it easier in easy content as long as it gets cleared. I do not think it has anywhere near the amount of bards implied by some here that are not playing songs because of their e-peens. But even if some were not playing because they have e-peen ego issues, then so what? As long as it gets cleared and they play if they need to play which they do not in the examples given by the OP more often than not then all it means is few minutes longer to clear aka not a speed run. Hardly the end of the world.

It does not make them a bad bard, it just means in that specific easy content location, at that specific time did the run, a run which did not require songs to complete it...they didn't feel like 'speed running' it which is fine by me. No one has to give 100% focus and effort, 100% of the time and no-one should feel bad about taking it easier on easy content as long as it gets cleared. In case many of you forget this is a game, one which many people use to alleviate the stress in their lives so I have no problem with them taking it easier in 'easy content' that 'does not' require they give 100% effort in order to clear it. I would only have a problem with them if did not give enough effort to clear it.

Same reason I don't bitch and whine about people watching cutscenes on their first time in a place. Same reason I do not demand they bring food and potions to buff their character in easy content just to speed up a run or whine about people not using perfect rotations in runs which do not require such effort or whine about tanks who do not want to pick up all the mobs in a dungeon in one go to speed up runs. If gets cleared that is all the matters, speed runs do not matter and they are just a preference and not a requirement.

On a side note...not sure why some people feel the need to purposefully remove the context of my comments in their quotes, mislead or lie about the things I have said or why some people are having such a hard time understanding my position which is quite simple to understand even if you do not agree with it.

[TheWaywardWind]

Bump.
[/10char]

[Imoen]

You're leaving because nothing you has said thus far makes any sense.

Actually it makes sense. They are saying... (yes I know it was back on page 9)

1. It doesn't make or break the fights in this specific content.
2. It is casual content, so let people be "casual"
3. you are obsessed with your own view of what bard should be doing.
4. you are obsessed with your own rotations and use of skills and are projecting it on to others with discontent.
5. If it was make or break, then people would do it.

At least that is what I understood from it.

Additionally, no offense Thewaywardwind, I believe this is kinda full of crap, you are making it a bigger deal than it is, I'm inclined to agree that you are totally projecting your expectations of a certain caliber of player which....

1. is just not ever going to work.
2. not everyone is the same caliber of player
3. It is casual content.

You can guide people, you can show them the way, you can even make suggestions, but you can't "make" people do things. You are going to always be miserable if you think you can "change" everyone you meet. You may find some comfort in others of a like mind on the forums/ingame, but that is all you are getting. Sorry.

There is no "by that logic" it is different people, different players of different levels of experience playing in casual content.

I can totally understand why bards that are not myself, would not play songs. By design it's a trade off, if there wasn't the damage penalty for the bard effect with it (exception of foe) and the chance to agro mobs , I'm almost certain this discussion would not even be happening, and by extension makes your judgement of "there is no reason not to" flawed because it is equally arguable that there is no reason to do it in this content either, thus the spiral of never ending debate and arguments.

With all that said, as a bard from 1.0 I do miss the larger support roll with songs, and when I am on bard I sing, cuz ... well it just seems "bardy" to me, but that is my opinion.

Assuming you read this far without a knee jerk retort, absorbed and comprehended what I said despite my crap writing skills, you would know that I totally agree that bards should be playing songs. However; I can also understand why they would not want to, and it is not my place, beyond a simple suggestion to use them. If they don't and I really think it matters or really pisses me off? Well then I just avoid that player in the future and wish them luck.

Long story in a nutshell here... -You can not control the world, so deal with it and move on.

[Droughboi]

Idk, I thought it was obvious to use FR when a mage is in the party. I'm not even 50 yet and I still do it on fates n stuff. Hell, I use FR when i'm grinding in DD and the WHM is spamming' holy.

Question: Bards use macros? wha? why? I feel like the only reason I would need a macro is if I ran out of buttons, or if I play SCH.

[Imoen]

Idk, I thought it was obvious to use FR when a mage is in the party. I'm not even 50 yet and I still do it on fates n stuff. Hell, I use FR when i'm grinding in DD and the WHM is spamming' holy.

Question: Bards use macros? wha? why? I feel like the only reason I would need a macro is if I ran out of buttons, or if I play SCH.

lol, drives me nuts when bards don't play songs but w/e

Lol ya, I dunno, I don't use macros, seems weird for bard unless u want to bundle ur buffs? I guess? Its been a while since I played bard but I guess you could bundle ....

line 1 -Misery's end
line 2 -blood letter
line 3 - heavy shot

Into a button if you were so inclined i guess? Maybe pop ur 2 dots into a button too? ya idk lol im just making stuff up here.

[OMEGA_HACK]

So glad this thread is here...I was in a party doing WoD last night as SCH, there was a majority of Bards in the alliance out of the DPS roles (8 iirc) and all of them were auto-attack AFKing...

WHAT. THE. $%#@ING. HELL.

I know that bards are kind of notorious for this as its easy to forget a bard lost in the back corners of the battlefield...hiding from everyone's view...but seriously don't want to play? Fine...don't play! Let another one of the much better than your auto-attack playing DPS characters queue up as they actually want to clear the content and get loot!

Oh, I should note that I know for a fact they were AFKing as throughout the whole fight I cast Raise (mainly on them) 48+ times, as I didn't start counting right away. Needless to say we RAN OUT OF TIME on WoD...because there was no DPS...Thanks you $%#@ing #$%@s...

If you haven't done this than my Public Service Announcement doesn't affect you, but if you have done this...SHAME ON YOU!

[Jim_Berry]

I'm a BRD who take the job serious. A while ago, I wanted to quit because people still ignore that 2/3 of our songs lowers our damage out. This reduction in damage then makes those running dps track programs jab us for not being op if we need to almost keep using those songs.

So, many BRDs refuse to use any song for that matter due to the high demand for damage output regardless of content. I have recently jumped back on BRD. A lot of times, in solo tank content, I'm usually the second person to die now due to being number 2 on hate list when tank die. To keep that rank, I feel like I must press buttons harder and faster as a mental thing to keep damage high while Ballad or Paeon is up.

What I'm saying is, BRD is flagged as an easy-to-play job. This comes with the burden of keeping damage up non-stop even though our weapons are 5 points lower in physical damage than other DPS', so why make us stress it?

[LTEvil]

Lol so many responses. People must be emotional over these brd songs. Too much free time waiting for expansion. #hatersgonehate

[Nuinn]

Before playing Foe or spamming AoE in WoD or big pulls anywhere I like to see if the tank can keep the mobs on himself first before they come crashing down like a stampede on me or the mages who start spamming their AoE too.

Before playing Foe right from the start and "just letting it run out" I like to know the rest of the party will dodge and not cause the healers to run out of their MP, with my own mp being close to zero for Ballad

And lastly, before stepping into the arena before it locks out I like to know the alliance isn't full of deprs. If you're gonna derp it I shall just sit and watch you all from the outside.