Failing on Calibrated Rose Gold Cog HQ

[ZephyrZ]

I gave up, I will never get this and regret ever getting all jobs to 50, crafting SHOULD not be this hard its a game to jave fun not get pissed and punch my monitor.

Can't tell if trolling or not but if you got em all to 50 and even worked hard enough to get to almost 4 star, yet you don't know what you're doing. This begs the question in the first place. Where did you get the gil? hmm? hmm? Had you actually done it yourself; you would know what you are doing. Just a thought ^^ I'm glad people who buy their way to the top fail miserably.

[MN_14]

Can't tell if trolling or not but if you got em all to 50 and even worked hard enough to get to almost 4 star, yet you don't know what you're doing.

Actually, it's possible to get that far using leves to level all classes to 50, gearing your character, and then crafting all the required tokens for the 1st master book and the artisan tools using a rng free rotation. The only problem is that you wouldn't have overcome the learning curve. This is no different than power leveling a battle class to 50, farming decent gear, and then expecting to clear T13 immediately.

My recommendation would be to start crafting normal 3* items (using all hq materials) with static rotations until you're familiar with the crafting abilities. The next step would be to toss out these rotations and then move on to 3* items starting from 0 quality using a dynamic approach instead. You should be able to learn most of the techniques required to craft the master book ii tokens.

[shanvhere]

Is there at least a basic rotation I can do then start learning on what to do after that, like I mean CZ, IQ, SHII is a basic start then I decide on the next rotations.

[MN_14]

The rotation linked below works reasonably well if your starting quality is 1000 or more.

http://www.ffxivguild.com/ffxiv-end-...s-master-star/

The one that you can try is the one listed under "Three Star Master Crafting Rotation", but this shouldn't be used with all nq materials as it only allows for 9 touch attempts. Elasia's macro guide also looks like a decent place to start.

You can also read through Caimie Tsukino's crafting guide for ideas: http://ffxivrealm.com/guides/ff14-ad...mie-tsukino.6/

Once the crafting abilities become second nature, you can develop your own approach.

[LineageRazor]

Is there at least a basic rotation I can do then start learning on what to do after that, like I mean CZ, IQ, SHII is a basic start then I decide on the next rotations.

I'm not sure how helpful it will be, but here's my rotation, copied from advice I gave to my sister. It's not so much a rotation as it is a methodology, but maybe it will help!

Edit: Also, recall that I did all my Masterbooks using my Artisan's tool, NOT Lucis - there's a possibility that the PbPx2, RSx2, SHII x2 synthesis formula I used may complete the synth early with a Lucis tool. Be wary!


First off, here are the ten cross-class skills I keep on my palatte:

Rumination (CRP 15 – Recover enough MP for Reclaim, if the synth has gone south. Unnecessary if your luck is good, or you’re good at predicting failure before it’s too late.)

Byregot’s Blessing (CRP 50 – Grand slam quality enhancement, pretty much indispensable.)

Hasty Touch (CUL 15 – quality enhancements at low CP cost, also a necessity.)

Steady Hand II (CUL 37 – to make the Hasties and Rapids more efficient, could possibly be replaced by Steady Hand if your luck is good.)

Reclaim (CUL 50 – to salvage the many, many times when Good or Excellent does not proc for BB, not necessary if your luck is good or your pockets are deeeeep.)

Rapid Synthesis (ARM 15 – enormous synthesis enhancements at high risk, must have either this or Piece-by-piece, preferably both.)

Piece-by-piece (ARM 50 – enormous synthesis enhancements at low risk, but only usable for the first couple synth steps, must have this or Rapid Synthesis, preferably both.)

Tricks of the Trade (ALC 15 – CP recovery by sacrificing Good conditions. Indispensable; it’s pretty much impossible to get decent quality with the amount of CP a crafter is limited to.)

Comfort Zone (ALC 50 – pay 64 CP to recover 80 CP over a period of ten steps. Nice to have, but probably not indispensable; long crafts like these allow use of this two, or even three times, and 32 free CP is nothing to sneeze at.)

Careful Synthesis II (WVR 50 – potent synthesis improvement with no risks. Nice to have to finish the synth as CP is often too low for Steady Hand, but Basic Touch or Careful Synthesis are acceptable alternatives.)


Depending on the class, I might not need all of them - for example, WVR comes with Careful Synthesis II, and so I don't need to cross-class it. In those cases, I'll additionally add Innovation (GSM 50), Ingenuity (BSM 15), and Ingenuity II (BSM 50), as these abilities make it easier to Delay (I'll get to Delaying in a bit).


Here’s how a typical synth goes, starting with HQ material (only one of the ingreds can be HQ, which will put you at roughly 3% starting quality). A * indicates that for that step, if the condition is Good, use Tricks of the Trade to recover CP, THEN use the indicated action.

- Comfort Zone

- * Inner Quiet

- * Piece-by-piece (I do this without Steady Hand II, even though there’s a 10% risk of failure, in order to save CP. 9 times out of 10, this works fine, and when it doesn’t it’s a pretty minor setback)

- * Piece-by-piece

- * If either above PbP failed, keep doing PbP until I have two successes.

- * Steady Hand II (Until SH II runs out, if Excellent procs while SH II is up, use Hasty Touch to try to utilize it; do not use any Touch that costs CP, even for an Excellent – it’s not worth it).

- * Rapid Synthesis

- * Rapid Synthesis

- * If either above RS failed, keep doing RS until I have two successes.

- * Hasty Touch until SH II runs out, or until only 10 Durability remains.

- * For the next several steps, if Comfort Zone has expired, use it again.

- * If Durability is greater than 20, Steady Hand II and Hasty Touch until Durability is 20. Otherwise, skip this bullet point.

- * Master’s Mend II

- * If Steady Hand II is not up, Steady Hand II. Otherwise, skip this bullet point.

- * Hasty Touch until SH II runs out.

- * Steady Hand II

- * Hasty Touch until Durability is less than 30

- * Master’s Mend II. If Good procs have been rare and there is not enough CP for MM II, use Master’s Mend.

- * If Good procs have been common, IQ stacks are 6 or less, and Comfort Zone has expired, Comfort Zone, and go back 5 bullet points.

- * If CP is greater than 81 (or 78), use Steady Hand II (or Steady Hand). If not, we gonna use a buncha Hasties RAW.

- * Hasty Touch until 30 Durability, wincing at every break if we didn’t have enough CP for SH or SH II. If goods are generous, we may be able to SH along the way.

- * Time to evaluate for the final push. If Inner Quiet stacks are at 7 or less, it’s a wash. Not even Excellent will bring you above 30% quality. Reclaim (Rumination if necessary to pay for it) and Hasty Touch until the synth fails. Otherwise, Great Strides.

- For the next three steps, you may need to Delay. This means to take an action which will not complete the synth, but will waste a turn. Good choices are Careful Synthesis II (can only use once, twice will complete the synth), Observe (14 CP), Steady Hand (22 CP), Innovation (GSM 15, 18 CP), Ingenuity (BSM 15, 24 CP). If you NEED an Excellent because your IQ stacks are low, Tricks of the Trade is an awesome Delay, since you actually GAIN 20 CP. Be sure, whatever you do, you still have 24 CP remaining for Byergot’s Blessing! Note that Innovation and Ingenuity have the added bonus of improving your Quality results, but the disadvantage that they require using a cross-class skill slot.

- If IQ is 8 or 9, and condition is Excellent, Byregot’s Blessing. If IQ is 10 or 11 and condition is Good or Excellent, Byregot’s Blessing. If neither, Delay until these conditions exist, or Great Strides runs out.

- If Great Strides runs out, and you somehow still have 56 CP left, Great Strides again, and go back two bullet points.

- If Great Strides runs out, and you do not have 56 CP left, Rumination, then Reclaim, then Hasty until synth breaks.

- If you managed to use Byregot’s Blessing on the appropriate condition, your quality should be at 64% or higher. Probably won’t see 100% without an Excellent. Careful Synthesis II twice (or once, if you used CS II to Delay) to finish the synth!


I can't promise this is the best method to use, and it's certainly not the only one, but it worked well for me.

[ZephyrZ]

Actually, it's possible to get that far using leves to level all classes to 50, gearing your character, and then crafting all the required tokens for the 1st master book and the artisan tools using a rng free rotation. The only problem is that you wouldn't have overcome the learning curve. This is no different than power leveling a battle class to 50, farming decent gear, and then expecting to clear T13 immediately.

My recommendation would be to start crafting normal 3* items (using all hq materials) with static rotations until you're familiar with the crafting abilities. The next step would be to toss out these rotations and then move on to 3* items starting from 0 quality using a dynamic approach instead. You should be able to learn most of the techniques required to craft the master book ii tokens.

I think you missed the point, it went right up and flew over your head. Crafting is a progressing. There is no learning curve from 1-50; i'm pretty sure everyone used HQ leve hand in's to level to 50; that is beside the point.

To be able to make the token in the first place, you can't use an rng free rotation unless you have some decent gear or melded at least which requires either you have the artifact set melded, the unmelded artisan set from talan or had a huge amount of money to buy the meldable artisan set.

If he started with the artifact set, then going by progression he should know what to do by now.

If he started with the unmeldable artisan set from talan, then he should have some idea what to do, what skills are useful, which aren't. How to set up his rotations for HQ crafts.

If he bought the meldable artisan set and hit 4*, which is what it seeems he did. He is going to have no idea what's going on and do nothing but complain on multiple threads about crafting being hard and other's not spoon feeding him answers. Which as i said, begs the question on where he got the millions for it :P So i reapeat. I am GLAD people who bought their way into 4 star are failing miserably.

No offence to Mithrie, as most of his vids are pretty good (and fair play to him for making them!), but this is a bad "rotation" for these crafts.

Some of the reasons being: 4 PbP, no progress moves saved for "fishing", always using WN2 as a 2nd progress restore move.



Anyways my advice would be learn to craft manually and dont follow any set rotation, react based on the situation given.

These are some general tips that should help:

For progress use PbPx2, RS x2 and save CS2 x2 for the last part, using 1 of them to "fish" if needed.

ToT for every "good" before the final BB.

Have as much CP as possible, try to save as much CP as possible during the craft.

Refresh CZ as much as possible, ideally aiming to use it 3 times.

Aim to use a 2nd MM2. (will be possible 70% of the time or so)

Finsh only if you have 11 stacks or 10 stacks if you've had an excellent somewhere before.

Aim to fish for a "good" after you use your GS, using Inno first, then CS2.

What are you talking about? Most of his videos are bad. Either in terms of rotation or in terms of misinformation on how skills work, granted i haven't bothered watching any of his in months since i was under the impression that he was just following rotations he found online and didn't really know what he was doing himself. Which is fine because he wanted to be a macro crafter but even then, his macro's tended to be more inefficient with cp wasted all over the place.

[MN_14]

There is no learning curve from 1-50; i'm pretty sure everyone used HQ leve hand in's to level to 50

This is not true. I got my first artisan tool with only wvr at 50, no other level 50 cross class skills, and only melds on the weaver crafted pieces. You can bet I had to use a dynamic crafting approach as I was stuck with skills like SH 1, Ing 1, and an advanced touch finisher. This experience later allowed me to get through the 3* learning curve very quickly (incidentally, I got my first 2nd master book just 2 days after I finally got arm to 50 for p by p).

[GenJoe]

This is not true. I got my first artisan tool with only wvr at 50, no other level 50 cross class skills, and only melds on the weaver crafted pieces. You can bet I had to use a dynamic crafting approach as I was stuck with skills like SH 1, Ing 1, and an advanced touch finisher. This experience later allowed me to get through the 3* learning curve very quickly (incidentally, I got my first 2nd master book just 2 days after I finally got arm to 50 for p by p).

Right.. So you had to learn by doing, which is what most crafters at 4 stars right now have done..
A common trait I see among people who complain about the difficulty of crafting is that they think it's either luck or gear based.. But we all know it isn't.

At the end of the day, we're all wearing the same gear, 472 craft 426 control 395 CP with food, give or take a few points on Control and CP with melds but that's negligible.
Does everybody else but me have incredible good luck? Hardly doubt it.
So what is it? ROTATION!
That's the only difference between crafters when it comes down to it, but some people just complain and refuse to see that they might have room to improve or just expect to be spoon fed some macros. How can we help with that kind of attitude? We can't.

For me, honestly, I don't care where he got the money to buy his gear, be it from spiritbonding, a friend, RMT, or whatever. Doesn't concern me at all. But I do agree with Zephyr's sentiment that I find it hard to sympathize with someone just expecting to be spoon fed the answers because well, crafting simply can't be spoon fed.. It took me about 2 hours of closely watching and giving advice to a friend craft in order to help him get through the artisan token crafting.. But at the end of the day, it's up to him to take in the general concept and take it further.. He completed his first manual II tokens 2 days after that and got 5 crafts to 4 stars in about a week since he first got his artisan tools.



Do I think Shavnhere can do the same? By reading online? I don't think so, my only suggestion would be to grab a bunch of cheap 3 star mats and start crafting them. The kind that doesn't really matter if it's nq or hq, still salvageable (terminus putty comes to mind). Challenge himself so he can learn from experience (Experience is really the only thing he's lacking). You learn by doing, not watching other people do it.
Best thing you can do is find something that's less costly to nq and practice with it. The artisan tokens would've been good practice but I think he skipped right over that by just buying his gear. So he never got to practice.

I'm not sure how helpful it will be, but here's my rotation

Yo if you're struggling and asking for a rotation to solve the issue, I think you're looking at it wrong.

That's just the general consensus and I share the sentiment.
I'm not trying to be mean, but that's just how it is when it comes to end-game crafting.. Especially manual II tokens.

A melded AF set and a rng free rotation is all that is required. I know this for a fact because I did exactly that with my other classes.

AF gear is cheap and easily obtainable (I got my first set by farming shards and selling low level items, which can be crafted by spamming SH, GS, AT). In any case, I think it's inappropriate to insinuate that someone is participating in RMT when players can make millions by spirit bonding or even fishing.

I think he's talking about the manual II tokens

[MN_14]

But I do agree with Zephyr's sentiment that I find it hard to sympathize with someone just expecting to be spoon fed the answers because well, crafting simply can't be spoon fed..

I don't think any experienced crafter would disagree with that sentiment. I just wanted to point out that without spending a lot of gil, someone could reach 3* and still know nothing about crafting. I might be misinterpreting his posts, but Zephyr seemed to be insinuating that for that to happen, you had to participate in RMT and spend millions on gear, which I found to be a bit unfair.

Bickering over this is pointless, however, as I think we all agree that players should have to learn how to craft to unlock the best recipes.

[GenJoe]

I don't think any experienced crafter would disagree with that sentiment. I just wanted to point out that without spending a lot of gil, someone could reach 3* and still know nothing about crafting. I might be misinterpreting his posts, but Zephyr seemed to be insinuating that for that to happen, you had to participate in RMT and spend millions on gear, which I found to be a bit unfair.

Bickering over this is pointless, however, as I think we all agree that players should have to learn how to craft to unlock the best recipes.

No you're right.. I don't necessarily agree on the RMT part.. it's really not hard to make the money to get your crafting gear without crafting to make the money. In fact, if somebody did go the route of RMT, I don't think they'd be fretting over the cost of gear anyway What is a full set of artisan gear anyway? $10?

I think what likely happened is that he saved up all his gil by spiritbonding, leves, whatever else gave him gil.. had barely enough to gear up. Thought it would be a gateway to easy money then BOOM! manual II decides to screw with him.. which would be a huge downer, don't get me wrong.. But that's the price you pay for taking short cuts.. I took short cuts too from AF -> 3 stars.. I just used Talan's set to get there and I was completely clueless for about 2 weeks.. I blew up 12 sealants on failed reclaim etc.. But all that culminates to help you craft better next time. I might've been a little harsh because he sounds like he's just going to give up, and well.. I think that'd be such a waste.