Enkindle and Tri-Disaster: Useless as they come.

[Akiza]

Originally Summoner had the highest single target damage with a wider AoE radius then the Black Mage. But after 2.1 Summoners single target damage got reduced by 20% with the removal of thunder and another AoE in a nerfed Blizzard 2 resulting in the Black Mage and Summoner being roughly equal in single target while the Black Mage had higher AoE bursts and the Summoner having solid singe target damage with decent AoE. Melee meta changed so their Single Target DPS will always be 20% higher than a caster which should've automatically changed the role of the Summoner. Statics went from having a melee and 2 casters to 2 melee and a caster forcing casters to compete for a spot in raids. In 2.25 the Black Mage Single Target Damage got buffed to 12% higher than the Summoner while retaining their AoE damage causing the Summoner to fall behind. 2.4 the arrival of the Ninja which had higher single target and bursts then the Monk which started the rapid decline of the Summoner because statics would force Summoners to either switch to Black Mages or be excluded form endgame raiding. The combination of game design, SE's stance in the Meta and the Players have forced the Summoner to either be changed or die out. It's simple evolution if something doesn't change and adapt to their environment they perish. SE hasn't adapted the Summoner to the current game design and meta so the player base has decided the Summoner doesn't have a place in groups so the population of the Summoner rapidly deteriorated.
The Summoner is never going to be the Single Target King it was in 2.0 again the Summoner needs a new role. The classic image of the Summoner is a hybrid Summoner/Elementalist specializing in Massive AoE Bursts with Solid Single Target Damage.

[RiceisNice]

Burst potential =/= overall DPS (just ask BRDs). SMN simply is not a very bursty Job at the moment.

Then you consider the environment that we're in, such as T12 and T13, burst damage is pretty important to kill the adds before it gets out of hands (giving phoenix stacks or breathing garlean fire onto the field)

[Eloah]

I no longer play MNK or BRD, actually. >_>

But no, it's more like "Okay, everyone seems to agree that Enkindle and Tri-Disaster really need work, but someone's trying to claim that One Ilm Punch and Rain of Death are fine when they aren't." Not gonna let that go unchallenged, even if it derails a topic. >_>

I never said those moves were fine, I said they seemed more viable, as in they work, just maybe not as intended, like Enkindle. I also said that those moves, for whatever reason, can fit into a rotation, if need be, but Tri-Disaster cannot. Also I wasn't challenging you either, I just said I never noticed complaints, even from those people who main as Bard or Monk. Those were my OPINIONS, and that is all, but lets not derail this thread any longer. If you wanna discuss changing those specific moves, or any moves you think suck, make a new thread and post it there.

[Skeith-Adeline]

~

....what? I said SMN was about holding damage. They aren't a burst DPS class and their AoE is /okay/. What about that is false? BLMs increase wasn't the issues–SMNs were just doomed through scaling from the start. Besides, player outcry alone doesn't dictate if a class is buffed substantially *coughSMNcough*

[Cynfael]

Then you consider the environment that we're in, such as T12 and T13, burst damage is pretty important to kill the adds before it gets out of hands (giving phoenix stacks or breathing garlean fire onto the field)

No argument there; just making sure we're clear on burst damage potential not being synonymous with overall DPS.

[Akiza]

The problem is Summoner needs to be distinguished from the Arcanist and Scholar. Enkindle is the only move that distinguishes the Summoner from the Arcanist but its wasted because its on 300s cool down and does a pitiful amount of damage. Also the stance on melee always having higher single target damage than casters forces all casters in the AoE Bursts role. Enkindle cool down should be reduced to 2min and Pets should specialize in Aoe Bursts.

[Picori]

I main SMN in final coil, and turn 12 works best for SMN. We push 4 Benny's all the time.
One I can bane black fire so all dps is on boss.
Two I bane beeny so I'm still attacking boss with dots what click for 1k-1.4k and shadowflare as I do attacks on add. Making me able to attack both targets.

[DarkmoonVael]

I main SMN in final coil, and turn 12 works best for SMN. We push 4 Benny's all the time.
One I can bane black fire so all dps is on boss.
Two I bane beeny so I'm still attacking boss with dots what click for 1k-1.4k and shadowflare as I do attacks on add. Making me able to attack both targets.

We also run SMN in our raid group, and have no issues with mechanics in t12 or t13. SMN is exceptionally powerful in t12 with blackfires and the bennu phase, with blackfires requiring the SMN and SCH using bane and they die very quickly. It is also a very powerful class to have in t13 being able to sustain their DPS whilst dealing with earthshakers.

But back to the OP, with Enkindle, its cooldown is far too long for the impact it has. I am hoping that maybe with the level cap increase we get a trait to either decrease its cooldown or make the attack more powerful.

As for Tri-Disaster, i have heard from pvp SMN its very useful there (i dont pvp at all, but thats what i have heard). Other than that, its probably one of the most niche abilities any class has in the game, rarely used at all.

[Lilyarel]

I'm gonna be wild and question why Summoners are poison masters instead of spirit-calling elementalists in this game. Pet actions on the visually unimpressive egis, sure, but still. You ask me, the egis should be twice as large, better animated and the entire job should be all about them. Having ACN as the base class sort of ruins that, though.

I agree that dropping Tri-disaster would be about as big a loss as a DRG losing Feint, but I do understand why Thunder isn't cross-classable anymore. Cutting the CD on Enkindle sounds better...

Because reasons. Honestly I blame the Scholars. Wouldnt make sense for Scholars to be popping summoning magic.

[Valoiz]

I love my SMN, but have to agree Tri-disaster do suck real bad, its a completly waste of time and mp out of pvp. Our only direct AoE atack should totally be better.

May SE could take out the bind... and add an actual tri-efect: like AoE dmg (potency 50?) Miasma III (potency 20?) and MIssery (like lost city adds) . Also cut mp at half.

I do not share combining any actual DoT into "poison"... totally diferent stuff in ff universe, also i do use poison potions+ contagio sometimes.

I love the effect and no problem with being a long time to cast spell.

Enkindle CD its too long.