Think Dark Knight will have any HP-sacrificing abilities, for Solo or Off-tank roles?

[Katana190]

Was thinking something stupid, but maybe their Hallowed/Holmgang would sacrifice their hp for this kinda buff? Idk but they'll be invulnerable for a trade off of hp, maybe 1 hp but that might be copying the ridiculous Holmgang. Just an idea!

[kyuven]

Just to throw in: Is SMN a real SMN?

Fundamentally they ARE. They're casters that summon powerful creatures to fight for them. In this case, though, instead of gigantic eidolons that would be wholly impractical for an MMO, they gave us elementals.
Essentially, SMNs derive less from past FF versions of summoner, and more from the EQ1+2 Magician and Necromancer classes: The former summons elementals to fight for them that are basically flying versions of the element, while the latter relies primarily on DoTs along with their pet.
Seriously the similarities are...kinda really strong.
And THEN we get the announcement that DRK is going to be a tank.
Well, see, EQ1 and 2 have a class called "Shadowknight"...it's a tank class that uses dark magic. Generally they don't have any abilities that drain their own health, though (well, they got some at one point, but they've fallen into the "neglected crap" pile that's so huge EQ1's spellbooks are over 255 pages long. Per class.
Calling it now: They'll function a lot like Shadowknights. Especially since, and I cannot emphasize this enough, having a tank with an ability that drains their HP is wholly impractical for how tanks function in this game.
In other words, having a damage sponge that hurts itself is like having a car powered by hamsters in wheels.

[Yukiko]

*snip*

Yea, you know? We playing Final Fantasy franchise!
Fundamentally they are reduced to the other job called "Beastmaster" (also known as Trainer or Mediator), SMN was never a pet class job to begin with, FACT.

Edit: We had many, many discussions about how a Final Fantasy SMN could be done for a MMOG. SE ignored all, understandable because they already finished it and did not want to remake it.

[Felis]

Must have been one of the later FF4 remakes. There's like... 3 versions of FF4 in existence. The way original release dates back to the SNES (renamed FF2 for whatever reason), then one for the GBA, and then finally for the Nintendo DS. The later 2 versions incorporate the Dark Knight abilities onto Cecil. (Different between the GBA and DS versions too) I have no idea if there are more versions beyond that.

Final Fantasy IV: The Complete Collection for PSP (in classic graphic design with better quality, not the 3D graphic)




And the PS1 remake

[Raffounz]

They said DRK will not have HP sacrificing abilities, due to his tank role. MP will be the pool to be sacrified.

[TheMunimai]

I can certainly see "Darkness" being their aoe hate gaining move, whether it reduces HP, I highly doubt it due to their tanking functionality.

[Havenae]

Okay, RPG history time:

OKAY MMORPG history time!

Every instance of a tank in an MMO is the same prime directive, your job is to protect the party. You protect your party with defense and health, that's why we call them meat shields. Oh and there's usually the added activity of keep the attention of the main target that poses a threat to your party.

I understand what you're saying and you're right in that instance, but that is there and this is MMOland.. the definition is different here.

In either case, in an MMO setting, any ability that compromises survivability and the tank's ability to accomplish their primary purpose in the interest of dealing more damage is a bad idea.

Unless of course you're working with a system where the threat table is only manipulated by dealing more damage (we're not). First and foremost your purpose, in an MMO, as a tank is threat management, positioning and staying alive. Anything else, like more damage, is just gravy and unnecessary.

Since SE seems content to give job/classes bare bones functionality (i.e. You tank, that's it. You heal, that's it. You DPS, that's it.) I doubt we'll see much in the way of solo friendly abilities that take Dark Knight back to the traditional form. Their skillset development seems to always have group play in mind and leaves little room for anything else.

[LineageRazor]

I know right? No wonder why I remember the original SNES version as Dark Knight not having access to Dark abilities. It's not that it was never included... they removed it from the version I played.

Yeah, the original FFIV release for SNES (or "Final Fantasy II", as they ported it, since they didn't bother to export the original FFII or FFIII) was nerfed in a bunch of ways. Removing Cecil's "Dark" command was just one. If you were confused during Cecil's "Mirror battle" as a Paladin against his Dark Knight self, where the Dark Knight kept spewing out that weird darkness attack that you could never do as a Dark Knight, well, now you know why. They kept that battle the same, but removed the command from Cecil.

Another nerf, I recall, was making the all-purpose status cure item (I forget what it was called) easily available and super cheap. So you had pricy echo drops and antidotes and gold needles all over the place, and alongside them, 20 gil items that could cure anything that they could. So silly!

Anyway, yeah, a bit disappointing that DRK isn't going to have SOME kind of HP-sacrificing move. It wouldn't necessarily have to be central to the DRK's method of operation (as was mentioned, a tank that assists the mobs in killing himself doesn't make much sense), but just a token nod to DRK's "gimmick" throughout most of the FF franchise.

[ereskigal]

Yea, you know? We playing Final Fantasy franchise!
Fundamentally they are reduced to the other job called "Beastmaster" (also known as Trainer or Mediator), SMN was never a pet class job to begin with, FACT.

Edit: We had many, many discussions about how a Final Fantasy SMN could be done for a MMOG. SE ignored all, understandable because they already finished it and did not want to remake it.

This x100 the dev team we have now has butchered most of the job that are not the basic FF jobs, ninja is only one that don't feel like they messed it it up. BRD, SMN, and soon we'll see on DRK.

[fireslash]

Final Fantasy IV: The Complete Collection for PSP (in classic graphic design with better quality, not the 3D graphic)




And the PS1 remake

dive bomb in 2d 2d