Desynthesis for matercraft demi-materia, Yay or Nay?

[Nyalia]

Tools appear to have nearly double the chance of specs to yield MCDs (according to many other people's research), and when they do yield MCDs, they can yield 1-3 (average: 2). So, that means that while a tool takes 2x the materials as the specs, they yield 4x the MCDs. Tools are the way to go. If you are a BSM desynther, go with the CRP saws (as someone said above, and remember you can buy Aldgoat Horns from the Kobolds and get "free" spruce lumber via LTW desynth if you have it (Bridesmaid's Sandals)). If you aren't, but you're a GSM desynther, go with the WVR needles. If you aren't either, but are an ARM desynther, go with ALC pestles or CUL frypans, whichever is cheaper to make (probably CUL, but NQ Volcanic Rock Salt is dirt cheap, generally).

If you're making HQ Twinthread for the needles, you probably want to sell that twinthread instead. That is not an efficient way to make the needles. What you want is a macro that can yield HQ tokens from all NQ materials, and run that with NQ twinthread you bought off the market after selling all your HQ twinthread. Last I checked, on my server, NQ twinthread was less than half the price of HQ.

If you do not have the stats to make HQ tokens from all NQ materials via a macro, then making the tools for desynth are likely not worth it. Especially if you are not a BSM desynther - WVR tools seem to cost about double what CRP tools cost. Here's the formula (which assumes shards are ~100gil each): [8*({spruce lumber}+3600)] ?= [8*({silver ingot}+2*{twinthread}+2100)], which simplifies into: {spruce lumber} ?= {silver ingot}+2*{twinthread}-1500. Plug your server's numbers into that equation to see which is cheaper. My guess is the Spruce Lumber (CRP tool) by a large margin.


If anyone needs, here is a macro for creating HQ tokens out of NQ materials. This macro is designed for people who are near 4* capability who do not want to pay attention to the craft. It requires at least 428 craft and works best with over 400 control. It takes 394 CP and thus requires HQ Bouillabaisse (but I more than make up for the price of the bouilla by not having to use HQ mats or pay attention).

This is not a 100% macro. I have, however, had very good luck with it. If all HTs succeed, you hit 100%. If one fails, you still hit 100%. If two fail, you hit around 96%. With three fails, you hit around 77%. Four fails will put you down near 29%. Though, if your final BB falls on a Good, you get much higher than that and chances are about 25% of that happening, further increasing your chances. On average, two should fail.

If you throw in one HQ material, it succeeds ~99% of the time (with my last batch, 1 HQ Horn Glue or Spruce Lumber in each synth: 144 HQ tokens made, 1 NQ; also, 18 tools made, 15 MCDs yielded)

----Macro 1----
/ac "Comfort Zone" <wait.2>
/ac "Inner Quiet" <wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Waste Not II" <wait.2>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Comfort Zone" <wait.2>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>

----Macro 2----
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Steady Hand" <wait.2>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity II" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Standard Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <wait.3>

Other people may have better macros than me, but this is what I use.

[Talia_Hailwind]

----Macro 1----
/ac "Comfort Zone" <wait.2>
/ac "Inner Quiet" <wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Waste Not II" <wait.2>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Comfort Zone" <wait.2>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>

----Macro 2----
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Steady Hand" <wait.2>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Ingenuity II" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Standard Synthesis" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <wait.3>

Other people may have better macros than me, but this is what I use.

Yup, thats the one I use too.

[Aeyis]

I find that when crafting large amounts a more stable macro (basic over hasty) is more reliable. It does require 1x HQ mat, but if you rely on hasty touches you will end up with a lot of NQ as well and there is absolutely no use for NQ turn ins if your not a culi desynth.

That said, the macro I use for that does require rather high stats.

/ac "Comfort Zone" <wait.2>
/ac "Inner Quiet" <wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Basic Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Manipulation" <wait.2>
/ac "Steady Hand II" <wait.2>
/ac "Basic Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Basic Touch" <wait.3>
/ac "Steady Hand" <wait.2>
/ac "Great Strides" <wait.2>
/ac "Innovation" <wait.2>
----Macro 2----
/ac "Ingenuity II" <wait.2>
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <wait.3>
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <wait.3>

Requires 466 Craftmanship and 392 CP. Gives 88%+ chance of HQ (at 400 and higher control), before taking into account good conditions. Using 1x HQ Twinthread (or similar mats)

[Nyalia]

Gives 88%+ chance of HQ (at 400 and higher control), before taking into account good conditions. Using 1x HQ Twinthread (or similar mats)

That's actually kinda low. Only 88%? The macro that I've been using, which has much lower crafts requirements, gives me a 99% chance with one HQ mat (95% otherwise). Sure, it uses Hasty, but it can fail twice with all NQ and still hit 96%+ (before taking into account good conditions). With an HQ mat, I can fail more than the average and still hit 100%.

[Gillionaire]

That's actually kinda low. Only 88%? The macro that I've been using, which has much lower crafts requirements, gives me a 99% chance with one HQ mat (95% otherwise). Sure, it uses Hasty, but it can fail twice with all NQ and still hit 96%+ (before taking into account good conditions). With an HQ mat, I can fail more than the average and still hit 100%.

He probably means 88% considering no GOOD conditions on any of the touches, which is rather rare..
I have macros that I use for crafting other things that I know is 86% barring any condition changes, but its real chances of hq lands around 97% and that includes landing Byregots on poor etc. I don't check macros when I mass produce things, I figure it's worth the time saved.


P.S. But I wouldn't recommend the "lazy" macro when you're just starting out and you don't have any stash to fall back on.. Try to hit 100% as much as you can by watching for conditions.

[Aeyis]

He probably means 88% considering noGOOD conditions on any of the touches, which is rather rare..

Yes. It's also assuming 400 control, personally I have 94% HQ chance with that macro considering no good (and worse) conditions, so its effectively a near 100% macro.

That's actually kinda low. Only 88%? The macro that I've been using, which has much lower crafts requirements, gives me a 99% chance with one HQ mat (95% otherwise). Sure, it uses Hasty, but it can fail twice with all NQ and still hit 96%+ (before taking into account good conditions). With an HQ mat, I can fail more than the average and still hit 100%.

You could say that your approaches focuses on increasing the potential HQ chance, whereas mine focusses on decreasing the chances of NQ, with a bonus of shortening the time needed to execute the macro.

My macro also has a shorter execution time as a side effect of using less touches/more CP touches, which is very useful for massproduction.

While you can get a ''100% macro'' using hasty touches, such macros are subject to RNG. It's not actually a 99% macro, because you also need to calculate the chances that your hasty touches might fail. When mass producing you will still get a good deal (quantity, rather then compare to your total crafts) of NQ if you rely too much on hasty touch macros.
Hasty touch macros are great with lower stats, but I would change to basic touch rotations once you have the stats to do so.

[KendraDarkstar]

My own data from 647 tools (excluding breaks and after that I stopped keeping track). Important note, you can get horrible streaks. I once got 8 mastercraft from 27 needles (29.7%) and once got 51 mastercraft from 46 needles (110%) so you have to have some fault tolerance. This was my breakdown (no attention paid to HQ vs NQ but I'd say roughly 4-5:1 NQ)

Rose gold nugget 230 36%
Ingot 52 8%
Fieldcraft 137 21%
Mastercraft 427 66%
Total Needles: 647 100%

Mastercraft Hits* 228 35%

* When you get desynth into 1-3 mastercraft, you get an average of 1.87 back. (I'm inclined to think this is actually 2 and tjat 1.87 is just where I'm currently sitting, this is the most swingy stat).

This should give you better math.

[Nyalia]

(no attention paid to HQ vs NQ but I'd say roughly 4-5:1 NQ)

My own research shows a 20% chance at desynth yielding NQ (4 NQ for every 1 HQ). In other words, I tend to get almost exactly four full stacks of NQ Spruce Lumber before I get one full stack of HQ Spruce Lumber from the free-gil shoes.

This should give you better math.

That really helps (me at least), thanks!