How would identify a female player guy/girl?

[Red_Wolf]

Having faith in academics is all fine and well, assuming that they are at least in the correct field...

I gave stats. I wanted to give stats. I never gave reasons or conclusions. I have heard the same excuse from every guy that has ever played a female toon. and the few girls that posted gave a different reason but all the same.

psychology has nothing to do with numbers or stats. I'm not sure why you are harping on it. not everyone even agrees it is a science...

[Kosmos992k]

I gave stats. I wanted to give stats. I never gave reasons or conclusions. I have heard the same excuse from every guy that has ever played a female toon. and the few girls that posted gave a different reason but all the same.

psychology has nothing to do with numbers or stats. I'm not sure why you are harping on it. not everyone even agrees it is a science...

I remember you from other threads, you like to argue strongly and steamroll people. I won't be steamrolled by your bluster and ignorance. Statistics are how you quantify research, and how you prove a hypothesis. Psychology is a medical science, you talked of trusting academics earlier, so you can hardly dismiss psychology with a wave of your hand now. Not to mention the obvious point that choice of avatar gender is clearly something that psychology would illuminate.

[Red_Wolf]

I won't be steamrolled by your bluster and ignorance. Statistics are how you quantify research, and how you prove a hypothesis. Psychology is a medical science, you talked of trusting academics earlier, so you can hardly dismiss psychology with a wave of your hand now. Not to mention the obvious point that choice of avatar gender is clearly something that psychology would illuminate.

Ignorant of what exactly? This is your own little soap box thing over explaining why tally marks from a random sample of 375 people needs a peer review. If I could find another study I would, but this is the only one I've found without pure EQ data from a decade ago. You are chasing your tail here until you offer evidence to the contrary. I think ~25% and ~7% are accurate.

This is way off topic, but please do no mock the fields that did this study while claiming Psychologists are medical scientists and statistical experts. Psychology is a soft science at best. It has its uses and I respect that but ultimately it proves absolutely nothing concretely.

[Peerless]

<1/2>
I've been playing MMO's since 1999, and here's how I handle this "issue":

1.) Assume gender neutral until proven otherwise.
2.) Don't pursue romantic relationships in-game. If they happen on their own, well that's just fine.
3.) Remember that the girl character you're playing with could be a cool dude IRL. And the dude character could be a cool chick. Either could be quite the opposite as well so stop making assumptions.
4.) Don't make a situation awkward by acting based on assumptions. If you can't stomach the awkwardness of asking, then you probably can't stomach the results of your acting based on an assumption.
5.) Remember that 99% of the time, how a character looks in game is decided by what its player finds pleasing to look at. The fact that you find it pleasing to look at as well is irrelevant.

[Kosmos992k]

Ignorant of what exactly? This is your own little soap box thing over explaining why tally marks from a random sample of 375 people needs a peer review. If I could find another study I would, but this is the only one I've found without pure EQ data from a decade ago. You are chasing your tail here until you offer evidence to the contrary. I think ~25% and ~7% are accurate.

This is way off topic, but please do no mock the fields that did this study while claiming Psychologists are medical scientists and statistical experts. Psychology is a soft science at best. It has its uses and I respect that but ultimately it proves absolutely nothing concretely.

I take it then that you're a journalism major? XD

Come off it, you posted the linked study to support your statements, and now you can't deal with a bit of direct, and on target criticism? Communications, Information sciences, PR and Journalism are not disciplines that will help anyone understand why people choose their avatar gender and appearance, nor how male or female players betray their gender during play. You presented evidence, I pointed out the flaws in it. All you can do is attack me and dismiss the need for peer review, proper methodology and ignore the paltry sample size.

The ignorance is evident when you willfully dismiss and ignore psychology in favor of journalism, communications, Information "Science" and PR with respect to researching why people make gender choices for their avatar. I'm not mocking those fields (if I wanted to mock those fields I could do a damned sight better than this discussion), I am pointing out the obvious - they are not the appropriate fields in this regard. I'm not mocking those fields when I point to the lack of peer review in what you implied is an academic study. I'm not mocking them when I point to the lack of sample selection criteria, test methodology and control group, or a proper test of a hypothesis. Without those things, the 'study, is nothing more than a survey with a small sample size and conclusions drawn by people interested in the results they report.

BTW, I did not say that psychologists are statistical experts, I said that statistics are used as a tool to evaluate the results of research by quantifying and analyzing the outcome. Believe it or not, statistics are a tool that can be used without being an expert statistician.

I don't have to offer a shred of evidence to critique something. You offered conclusions, statistics and opinion as fact that you subsequently supported with a link to a 'study'. I've offered sound criticism of that study.

You know, for someone who thinks so little of statistical method and proving a hypothesis with statistics, you're awfully quick to pull numbers out of the air and challenge others to post alternate numbers. You can't have it both ways.

[Red_Wolf]

I take it then that you're a journalism major? XD

Come off it, you posted the linked study to support your statements, and now you can't deal with a bit of direct, and on target criticism?

Ha, definitely not a journalism major. Do you see my grammar?

Your criticism is that only Psychologists can count. I disagree... I guess I can provide proof if that's what you need.

[Kosmos992k]

Ha, definitely not a journalism major. Do you see my grammar?

Your criticism is that only Psychologists can count. I disagree... I guess I can provide proof if that's what you need.

I'm not going to chase you in circles any more, I have made my criticisms of your posted 'evidence' if your evidence and argument is so weak that it cannot stand scrutiny...so be it.

[Aeyis]

Ha, definitely not a journalism major. Do you see my grammar?

Your criticism is that only Psychologists can count. I disagree... I guess I can provide proof if that's what you need.

You mention Psychology as a soft science. Sorry, but you just lost complete credibility as far as I'm concerned.
There is only one field of science that can be called a soft science that ultimately proves nothing, and that is statistics.
Because it is not a science wherein one thinks, only observes; rather then seek to understand.

Even journalism can't be considered a soft science.



But psychology? Not sure if you are serious here. I find it extremely odd that any scientist or thinker would consider the science of ''the human software, and it's relation to the human hardware'' a science that ultimately proves nothing.

Your criticism is that only Psychologists can count.

Psychology was the relevant field because of the conclusions they drew from their study. They used psychology to obtain their results.It's only the most important science in this question because of that.
Ofcourse a study is questionable at best when it has no links to the field of science that they used to obtain their research results.

[Miste]

You are chasing your tail here until you offer evidence to the contrary. I think ~25% and ~7% are accurate

Some evidence that your statistics are nothing but conjecture.

1. The study was from a totally different game than FFXIV and you are trying to use it to insist that FFXIV will have the same outcome if they did a study. Do a study yourself based on FFXIV players or just drop it cause it is really pointless.

2. The other game the study was from is a lot older than FFXIV and the graphic styles are completely different from each other.

3. The other game is made by a NA gaming company, while FFXIV is from Japan which can have very different ideas of game design and culture.

4. 375 players is an immensely low sample size considering WoW is reported to have over a million players.

5. There is some overlap in gaming communities but there are also some people who have what you could call a cult following of a specific game and they do not play other MMO's than the one they like/enjoy the most. This makes FFXIV have partly its own community of different kinds of people. So you cannot assume that FFXIV's community will be extremely similar or if at all similar to other MMO communities.

6. You could do the study on FFXIV and find out is is 25% and 7%, then okay you found out, but until you do a study those numbers don't exist and you cannot just attach them to FFXIV's community just because you want to try to win an argument.

7. Please just stop posting now...you've already made quite the fool of yourself with saying things like if a woman says they are a woman they are asking for cyber sex or to be harassed.

[Red_Wolf]

stuff...

This all started because there is a false theory that a large portion of female MMO players play as males. Or that there was an equal portion of females that do gender bending compared to males. I spent some time trying to find other studies. But they were all pre-WoW and both percentages were much lower. I found this study for the sake of argument. I never claimed it was perfect or said their conclusions were accurate. But I am reasonably sure that the researchers took an accurate sample, can count, and can identify gender IRL.

Please stop misinterpreting what I said about girls announcing their gender to strangers. I thought I already made that clear and other people agreed.